Protecting protesters health and safety.

[derf]

last week's manslaughter of a passer-by, .

Would you kindly post a link to a conviction of anyone regarding this death please.

 

[free spirit]

Would you kindly post a link to a conviction of anyone regarding this death please.

why?

it's clearly true given the wealth of evidence in the public domain now, but I for one am not holding my breath for the IPCC do actually do their job and secure a conviction.

had it not been for the online campaign, and persistent investigation by the Gaurdian the police would have got away with this being entirely natural causes, and nobody would have ever found out about the police assault that took place minutes before his collapse.

I hope you weren't planning to say anything along the lines of people shouldn't speculate on this until after the trial... fuck that, in this particular case that would just enable the police to cover up what happened.

 

[derf]

why?

it's clearly true given the wealth of evidence in the public domain now, but I for one am not holding my breath for the IPCC do actually do their job and secure a conviction.

had it not been for the online campaign, and persistent investigation by the Gaurdian the police would have got away with this being entirely natural causes, and nobody would have ever found out about the police assault that took place minutes before his collapse.

I hope you weren't planning to say anything along the lines of people shouldn't speculate on this until after the trial... fuck that, in this particular case that would just enable the police to cover up what happened.

There is a lot of evidence that there was an assault but nothing yet to say that the cop in question actually caused his death.
He may well have been about to croak anyway and the cop was just unfortunate to have clonked that particular bloke.

That's not to say that the cop in question isn't at fault but I would question the level of blame you can attach at this point.

 

[ymu]

There is a lot of evidence that there was an assault but nothing yet to say that the cop in question actually caused his death.
He may well have been about to croak anyway and the cop was just unfortunate to have clonked that particular bloke.

That's not to say that the cop in question isn't at fault but I would question the level of blame you can attach at this point.

We are currently discussing a charge of manslaughter - because it is believed that the beatings were a likely contributory cause for the heart attack. Even if manslaughter doesn't stick, he would still be facing criminal charges for assault. In this context (manslaughter), your comments are completely irrelevant. Bad luck is almost a defining feature of the charge.

If it turns out that he actually died from his injuries, then we are talking about murder and your comments are ... still completely irrelevant. It's far too early to assume that the heart attack story is accurate. It has been reported that the Home Office pathologist recorded no bruises on the body. A second, independent, post mortem was ordered as soon as the video footage was released, jointly ordered by the IPCC and the family.

It has also been reported that he seemed to be drunk - which is consistent with how he appears in the videos. But his boss said he was stone-cold sober when he left work at 7pm, just 30 minutes before he stopped breathing. The medical student who attended him as he was dying said he was giggling. These accounts are much more consistent with a head injury than a heart attack.

 

[derf]

I would not argue if someone posted the cop was guilty of assault or being a daft, stroppy pillock but, as yet there is nothing to say that the strike to his right leg or the push did cause his death.
It also strikes me that if he was having heart problems that may well cause the bloke to walk in a manner consistent with being drunk as circulation to his brain may have been affected.

So while many may be talking of manslaughter or murder there isn't. as yet, any direct evidence to show this and the poster was wrong to assume it.

 

[ymu]

Pls forgive more naive questions, but:

How come sit downs don't offer resistance to kettling? The small kettle at the Ian Tomlinson memorial was a sit down and seemed to work v. well. Protesters were sprawled out in the sunshine, being fed by sympathisers who lobbed food parcels over the heads of the police. The police had to stand there getting footsore, complaining about the heat of their fireproof suits. Other protesters who can't get in the kettle can sit down in a different spot, preferably somewhere the police will need to move them from, e.g. encircling a vehicle or a horse. (It says in the westerns that horses never tread on people who are lying down. )

Plenty of coppers over at Police Oracle believe that an attempt to break their line, however peacefully done, justifies a clobbering. Then you get a nasty ruck and the police can claim that their use of violence was appropriate.

Plenty of organisation required - but aren't there lots of sensible people amongst the climate crowd who would volunteer to be group leaders of 10 or so people? I know it sounds a bit paramilitary, but so long as it's non-violent there's nothing wrong with it. I don't think you could combine group leaders with helmets though - then it's too easy for the Sieg Heil to depict you as a private army.

In fact I think helmets are bad news full stop for climate camps - just keep reinforcing the pacifist message and then you get families, retired people, even school groups turning up. The Bishopsgate camp got some great coverage from some embedded journos who praised its educational value. If you can build on that the events become big carnivals rather than small demos and they get so much public support that they stand a chance of effecting real change. Plus they get far too big for the police to kettle them - they have to content themselves with directing traffic instead.

It's no use just preaching to green activists - you've got to win over joe public, even the Sieg Heil readers. Helmets would be a backward step and invite savagery. OK, other countries have them, but they also have water cannons and CS gas - and who needs that? Only the anarchists. And I don't want to help them.

It depends if you want to be kettled or not. A sit-down protest doesn't help if you still have no toilets, water or food and the weather's turning nasty.

Climate Camp last week went in with tents, toilets, supplies and plenty of activities. A good tactic to defeat the kettle - which is why the riot squad went in to force them to vacate the area, rather than forcing them to stay there.

As to defeating the kettle ... it can all get a bit Hillsborough. People should wear personal protective gear because they may get crushed regardless of their intentions, but a push through the lines can get nasty.

I do think people should go prepared for toilet emergencies - with super-soaker water pistols. That might break the lines a bit.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Have I misunderstood or are you suggesting a U75 recruitment campaign via facebook?

That wasn;t the point of my post, they were just examples I was just highlighting the fact that some of the more seasoned protesters have the opportunity to involve and associate with some people who have for the first time been on the receiving end of police violence themselves. There will be lots of people who before last week would not have believed the police would do such a thing and indeed might well have blamed protesters and believed the police.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Another "why didnt I think of that suggestion" from a comrade last night: inflatables! - dont take up space, easy to explain away as a fluff item.

 

[free spirit]

Another "why didnt I think of that suggestion" from a comrade last night: inflatables! - dont take up space, easy to explain away as a fluff item.

like this?

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]