Proportional Representation My Arse

[Donna Ferentes]

If Britain is going to adopt PR for national elections, then, I think*, they should adopt the STF and not the current system of PR used here for the EP elections.

Quite likely they should. However it is perhaps a little late to advise on this question: I mean all the ballot papers are already printed and everything.

 

[8den]

Rants that a polling station isn't following the rules without first finding out what the rules are.

I was informed the EU elections unlike National Elections, would use PR, and I presumed it would be the same version of PR that I'm used to.

Also the absolute lack of anything approaching to electioneering by the large parties, mean this election was flying low under my radar for the last few days.

Finally at least one other poster on this thread have chipped in saying that they were unaware of this as well, so it appears I'm not exactly alone in my ignorance.

Assuming that the people running the polling station haven't been trained properly and don't know their own jobs and that you know more about it than they do.

I didn't speak to anyone in the polling station. I rang the UK office of European Parliament.

Are you sure that you aren't an idiot?

Considering that you seem to lack basic reading comprehension, then if I'm an idiot, I'm in good company.

 

[8den]

Quite likely they should. However it is perhaps a little late to advise on this question: I mean all the ballot papers are already printed and everything.

You may not have heard this amazing thing about elections, they're not once in a lifetime opportunities.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

You may not have heard this amazing thing about elections, they're not once in a lifetime opportunities.

Indeed not. So there is still time for you to put them right.

 

[8den]

Indeed not. So there is still time for you to put them right.

And deprive you of the chance to engage in some pointless trolling? Never!

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I'm disagreeing with you. Perhaps that's your problem. You never considered the possibility that things might be done different to your way.

 

[8den]

I'm disagreeing with you. Perhaps that's your problem. You never considered the possibility that things might be done different to your way.

You're not presenting an argument though. You're just disagreeing with me.

Something familiar about this?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

You're not presenting an argument though. You're just disagreeing with me.

Thing is, it wasn't remotely clear from the tone and content of your opening posts what your gripe precisely was. If you're quarrelling with the particular form of PR used, why not just say that in the OP? That way we have a discussion (a course not offered, I believe) rather than you just ranting about something you might have known, were you particularly interested in the topic, but have in fact only just found out.

 

[ericjarvis]

I get the impression that part of the OP's point is that it is a particularly stupid form of election, and on that I'm 100% in agreement. Basically all you get is to choose which bunch of timeserving arselickers will choose which piece of scum they would like to represent you.

 

[Gromit]

I didn't speak to anyone in the polling station. I rang the UK office of European Parliament.

I was refering to the signs that had been placed by polling personnel.

 

[Gromit]

I'd like to see an electoral system where all ballot papers include a 'No Confidence' box.

If you don't want to support any candidate and wish to register your discuss with the current political system you put an X in that box.

It would give us a truer reflection of disatisfaction than non votes and deliberately spolit papers.

 

[8den]

I was refering to the signs that had been placed by polling personnel.

No I sleepy assumed that they did, and voted, then left, and then tried to figure out what was going on. My wife, did ask for an explanation, and just kept getting told it's PR, not PFP PR, rather than STF PR, which are terms, neither the workers at the polling station used, nor the woman from the UK office of the European Parliament, I had to look at wikipedia to get a straight answer.

 

[temper_tantrum]

I didn't know this - interesting. I was sure that the European system we're using today was different to other PR-based systems and now I know why!

 

[8den]

Thing is, it wasn't remotely clear from the tone and content of your opening posts what your gripe precisely was. If you're quarrelling with the particular form of PR used, why not just say that in the OP?

Because I didn't understand what was going on when I made my first post. Between my first post and my third post, I'd looked into the matter further. I was actually hoping that someone on here could offer more clarity.

Considering how several posters on here have come forward to say that they were as equally in the dark as myself, I think I provided a small public service to some users of this forum.

That way we have a discussion (a course not offered, I believe) rather than you just ranting about something you might have known, were you particularly interested in the topic, but have in fact only just found out.

I think I've mentioned on at least one other thread that I've been surprised about how low key these elections have been in terms of the electioneering.

 

[articul8]

Look, there are several forms of PR used in different European countries to elect MEPs - but they are required to give broadly proportional outcomes.

Ireland (North and South) uses STV (voting 1,2,3...) - we used regional closed lists - some use national lists -

 

[CyberRose]

Fuck I haven't been to the polling station yet and now I'm scared!

I just assumed you had to put one cross next to whoever you wanted to vote for, I mean, that's not hard is it?! Now I don't know what the fuck to do when I get down there!

 

[8den]

Fuck I haven't been to the polling station yet and now I'm scared!

I just assumed you had to put one cross next to whoever you wanted to vote for, I mean, that's not hard is it?! Now I don't know what the fuck to do when I get down there!

Thats all you have to do.

 

[claphamboy]

Fuck I haven't been to the polling station yet and now I'm scared!

I just assumed you had to put one cross next to whoever you wanted to vote for, I mean, that's not hard is it?! Now I don't know what the fuck to do when I get down there!

You just put the 'X' next to the party you want to vote for, simple as.

 

[CyberRose]

So I'm not putting two crosses next to three candidates?

 

[Iguana]

So I'm not putting two crosses next to three candidates?

With this system you aren't voting for a candidate, you are voting for a party. So you put a cross next to the party you want and the vote can be swapped about amoungst the party. So if you vote for someone who has enough votes to be elected and doesn't need your vote they can pass it on to another member of their party.

It's really shit.

 

[claphamboy]

With this system you aren't voting for a candidate, you are voting for a party. So you put a cross next to the party you want and the vote can be swapped about amoungst the party. So if you vote for someone who has enough votes to be elected and doesn't need your vote they can pass it on to another member of their party.

It's really shit.

It doesn't work like that!

 

[CyberRose]

It doesn't work like that!

I guess it does kind of work like that, once you have won one seat remaining votes for that party would then go towards winning their second seat.

 

[claphamboy]

Well, no, because you vote for a party list not ‘someone’ and there’s no ‘passing on of votes’, seats are allotted depending on the number a party wins and the order of those on the list, the votes don't get swapped about amoungst the party in question.

 

[frogwoman]

I'm really confused now ...

 

[CyberRose]

Well, no, because you vote for a party list not ‘someone’ and there’s no ‘passing on of votes’, seats are allotted depending on the number a party wins and the order of those on the list.

Yes, hence "kind of"! Obviously there isn't a set target for a seat so it wouldn't be able to be worked out until voting stops and then it would be all worked out together

 

[dessiato]

Anyone want to buy the deckchair concession on this thread? It isn't going so well as I thought it might. I give good discount!

 

[Iguana]

It doesn't work like that!

But an awful lot of people vote for a particular candidate, because they like that particular person. But now anyone who votes like that is just voting for the party. This way of voting is worse than the standard system, although I guess it's more honest in some ways.

I stand by my opinion that it's shit.