"pro cook" knives, any good?

[ViolentPanda]

Yeah. All those chefs and folks in the know rush out to buy those Asda knives. They're the same, honest guv.

A blade's a fairly simple tool, but it's simply bollocks to suggest that there's little difference between a 3quid knife and a decent chef's blade. Try the balance of the blade for a start, the ease of sharpening it, the ability to retain an edge. And so on.

The best value, most easily sharpened blades remain carbon steel. Brands like Global do command a premium, but you're paying for good quality 'prosumer' blades that provide a good balance between professional sharpness and easy maintenance for the average enthusiastic home cook.

My dad is still using the same carbon steel set of 3 butchering knives he bought himself in the late fifties. The blades are a bit shallower now, but he still uses them regularly, and he can bone and joint a whole carcass without having to use a steel.

You rarely get that kind of edge-holding with stainless, or with stamped (rather than forged) blades.

 

[Chz]

TBH a decent chef has the technique and wherewithall to chop through things with comparatively cheapish blades (Victorinox and below)

Most chefs I've known rate the Victorinox stuff quite highly. They've said it doesn't "feel" as nice as their uber-expensive stuff (most liked Global, but there's always some variation there), but that they are hands-down the best value for money knives out there. Something to the effect that the £20 Victorinox chef's knife works 99% as well as their boutique brand at £80+.

They are slightly less durable, being stamped steel, however. Might be noticeable in a commercial kitchen, but unlikely in the home.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Innit. All this knife fetishism reminds me of the sad twelve year-olds at school, always burbling on about their blades in an obvious displacement of penis anxiety. It is even sadder to see this infantilism replicated in adults. Anyone who pays over a fiver for a knife is a sucker. End of.

More of your "maniacal commitment to the controversial" phil, or another eample of you sounding off about something you know nothing about?

I expect that it's both in this case.

 

[Spion]

point of information: stamping (or pressing) is the process of cutting a blank of steel from a larger piece. That can then be forged and it will have a structure better suited to knives etc as the 'grains' in the steel will be distorted to approximate the finished shape of the tool. If it is only stamped out and then has an edge put on it the act of 'sharpening' it will cut across its grain, giving a poorer-quality edge.

It's hard to imagine Victorinox knives are only stamped

 

[pembrokestephen]

SS is a poor choice of material for knives. Brittle and not good at holding its edge. A much cheaper carbon steel blade would probably be better.

That is true. And in a commercial kitchen it's probably less of an issue, as the knife isn't going to be sitting around waiting to be washed, or just lying in a drawer for 90% of the time. But in a domestic situation, decent stainless steel offers a reasonable compromise between the ease of sharpening of a carbon steel knife and the tendency for carbon steel to rust. My mum's main kitchen knife was an old and almost-worn-out carbon steel knife that would cut stuff while it was still an inch from the blade . But it would pick up a rusty bloom within a day or two, and had a tendency to taint anything slightly acidic that you cut with it.

I've never had this trouble, tbh, even with the most horrible cheapy knives you sort of adjust technique to avoid sudden slips, I find

Yeah, but I find it quite nice not to have to!

Fair enough. I can't argue with the fact you *like* them. I was only reacting to the assertions that they are in any way practically better for the home cook than a knife which is 10 times cheaper but kept sharp. And I'm not talking about plastic handled ultra-cheap pressed-steel shite but an averagely well made carbon steel knife with a good handle that costs only a few quid.

Fair point, and maybe I was coming across a bit "what YOU wanna do is...", but I think the context (ie a web forum) makes it implicit that I'm not going to start going round people's houses and making them upgrade to Globals or Wusthofs

Well, tbh, some of your earlier comments do come across that way. All, 'I used to be like you until I paid 700 quid for a Japanese Emperor-quality Sushi Katana'.

Yeah, I was a bit. I think I was kicking back against what I saw at the time as an equally aggressive response *tries to remember if he was pissed when he posted that*. Anyway...

Anyway, how's your homebrew? I bought a Burco and am soon going to get a Porter on the go

Well, with the winter coming on, I'm seriously considering making the first all-grain brew a lager. At the moment, I'm researching the things you can do to cheap kits from Wilko to make nice beer with them...there's 40 pints of "definitive bitter" sitting next to me here even as I write...

 

[pembrokestephen]

Most chefs I've known rate the Victorinox stuff quite highly. They've said it doesn't "feel" as nice as their uber-expensive stuff (most liked Global, but there's always some variation there), but that they are hands-down the best value for money knives out there. Something to the effect that the £20 Victorinox chef's knife works 99% as well as their boutique brand at £80+.

They are slightly less durable, being stamped steel, however. Might be noticeable in a commercial kitchen, but unlikely in the home.

I've got a little Victorinox knife which is definitely better than posher stuff. It has a plastic handle, but that's not the end of the world, but it stays sharp. I think it cost about £7.

 

[Spion]

Well, with the winter coming on, I'm seriously considering making the first all-grain brew a lager. At the moment, I'm researching the things you can do to cheap kits from Wilko to make nice beer with them...there's 40 pints of "definitive bitter" sitting next to me here even as I write...

Interesting you should say that. I got a John Bull porter kit and a bag of 'homebrew enhancer' (ie, corn sugar) for Xmas off the in-laws and have been trying to discover whether I can ditch the enhancer and add more malt extract plus some more boiling and aroma hops.

Lager is definitely a good idea in this weather. I had to bugger about with the central heating for 3 days (ie, on all the time in the room I keep my bottles in) to get my latest batch of bitter to carbonate in the bottle

 

[pembrokestephen]

Interesting you should say that. I got a John Bull porter kit and a bag of 'homebrew enhancer' (ie, corn sugar) for Xmas off the in-laws and have been trying to discover whether I can ditch the enhancer and add more malt extract plus some more boiling and aroma hops.

Lager is definitely a good idea in this weather. I had to bugger about with the central heating for 3 days (ie, on all the time in the room I keep my bottles in) to get my latest batch of bitter to carbonate in the bottle

If that's "Munton Beer Kit Enhancer" (which I suspect it is - that's the Wilko standard!), then it's not just corn sugar, but spray dried malt and dextrose extract. Miles better than sugar (which makes kits a bit thin and "cidery").

Certainly you can swap for malt - pretty sure you would just do it 1:1. Careful with the boiling thing, though, you don't want to get air into the hot wort or you'll end up with what they call "hot side aeration" or HSA - google it to see why it's not too good, but there are those who say the problem's overstated...

Just out of interest, what hops are you planning to use, and do you think we should start another thread?

 

[Spion]

Just out of interest, what hops are you planning to use, and do you think we should start another thread?

I was planning on using UK varieties, perhaps Goldings and/or Fuggles

What's your latest/next brew?

 

[pembrokestephen]

I was planning on using UK varieties, perhaps Goldings and/or Fuggles

What's your latest/next brew?

Goldings/Fuggles nice standard hops, but keep your eye out for Northern Brewer, too. Another good traditional British hop, and a bit more butch than the other two.

Last brew on was (supposedly) the Christmas brew, but I only put it on 10 days before Christmas, and it was a 1075 brew with a lot of adjuncts (ginger, cardamom, cloves, allspice, orange, cinnamon), so it went quite slowly, and I bottled it at 1025 gravity just after Christmas, with only a fairly small amount of priming sugars (I used a mix of sucrose and treacle), so it will want 3-4 weeks minimum to condition. I may actually lay most of that batch down for next Christmas - it's all labelled and ready.

That Young's "Definitive Bitter", using the Muntons Enhancer, is on at the moment. 1035OG (I threw another 250g of sugar in, as 1031 just seemed a bit TOO weak!). I'll be measuring the gravity today to see if we're getting there yet, and bottling some time over the weekend if we are.

I have 28 cava/champagne bottles for lager, not quite enough for a 25 litre batch (although I have enquiries out with various dipsomaniac friends, so should be able to double that total), but I think the next one on after the Definitive will be a lager kit, while I get the plumbing sorted out for the liquor tun/mashing bit to set up for all-grain brewing...

I'd quite like to go for a darkish lager, quite high gravity. In the interest of getting it done, I'll just grab a kit and either double it up, or beef it up with some extra malt to get to about 1050-1060OG.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Anyone who pays over a fiver for a knife is a sucker. End of.

Anyone who thinks this, is wrong

I know fuck all about cooking*, and even I can tell the difference between aquas Rosendahl chefs knife and the cheapo thing we had before that came as part of a "starter" set.




*getting there though, I live with a rather good tutor

 

[Cid]

I want one of these...

 

[ViolentPanda]

I want one of these...

Very nice, and ceramic blades stay sharp for absolute ages, but it's WAYYY too expensive, and ceramic blades chip far more easily than carbon steel knife blades knick. You'd have to really pussyfoot around that knife!

 

[Cid]

Very nice, and ceramic blades stay sharp for absolute ages, but it's WAYYY too expensive, and ceramic blades chip far more easily than carbon steel knife blades knick. You'd have to really pussyfoot around that knife!

Well it's a sashimi knife so it's designed for very delicate work by people who really, really know what they're doing... Beautifully simple design though.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

I want one of these...

605 quids for a knife I'll stick to my old opinel, thanks.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

it reminds me of this manga where the guy is going to geta new sword... the sword makers son has gone into making knives because of the lack of business so to test his skills the swordsman picks up one of the knives cuts through a daicon raddish the presses the two halves together and the thing sticks together again

 

[ViolentPanda]

Well it's a sashimi knife so it's designed for very delicate work by people who really, really know what they're doing...

Yeah, I understand that, but the knifes' longevity is still pretty much "in the lap of the g-ds", isn't it?

I know I'd feel fucking gutted if I didn't get a good couple of decades' use out of a knife like that.

Beautifully simple design though.

The best stuff usually is simple. It's why I use Japanese pull-saws and planes for woodwork: Simplicity and effectiveness.