Pro/Anti Israelis American Media?

[angry bob]

I implied nothing. Please stop trying to put words into my mouth.

The US media is overwhelming and unquestioningly, pro-Israeli

And you tore into astronaut when he suggested that the cartoons were anti-Israeli ... which suggests that you disagree does it not?

But just for the record, to clear all this up, what is your opinion of the cartoons? What point do you think they are making? Would you characterize them as pro- anti- or indifferent to Israels policys?

 

[angry bob]

Well, Bob?

OK OK ... faiur enough. He did say that. I apologise

 

[angry bob]

Now you're trying to twist my words around - as well as trying to put word into my mouth.

How have I been "smearing people"? Oh and for your information, "shyster" is not a "racial insult". We've already been over that one, friend.

So as for you being right wing and American, I suppose you never once referred to those with whom you are at ideological odds, as being "anti-American"? Maybe you didn't but the vast majority of your fellow travellers did. The purpose of describing these cartoons as "anti-Israeli" are for the reasons I mentioned. There is no hidden discourse.

Look ... shyster, in some parts of the world, is used as a racial slur. The point is, though, that astronauts opinion on that word is irrelevant to the discussion here. As is my nationality.

And no I do not describe people with different ideologies than my own as anti-american (unless they are, of course). I've been on the recieving end of that sort of crap too often.

 

[nino_savatte]

And you tore into astronaut when he suggested that the cartoons were anti-Israeli ... which suggests that you disagree does it not?

But just for the record, to clear all this up, what is your opinion of the cartoons? What point do you think they are making? Would you characterize them as pro- anti- or indifferent to Israels policys?

"Tore into him"? That's a little dramatic - isn't it? I had the right to challenge him on this issue. The cartoons aren't "pro" or "anti" anything, they merely comment on the political state of affairs that has existed for decades and the US and Israel's continued obstruction of the peace process.

This isn't about simplistic binary opposites, it's about the issue of political opinion and the rght to express such opinions without being smeared or demomised. Perhaps the concerns of those who are working for peace don't count as far as you and astronaut are concerned; perhaps the opinions of those who are critical of Israel's continued vbrutal occupation are abhorrent in your eyes. The simple fact is that the dominant culture has taken the side of Israel whether you agree with that or not. The White House has always supported the cause of Israel over that of its oppressed peoples. This has been the case for nigh on 40 years.

 

[angry bob]

Just to clarify my position.

It is my opinion that the US media displays an unfair bias in favor of Israel at the expense of Palestine.

This thread is odd though. The OP starts by saying that he could only find cartoons that were 'pro-Israeli', and then posts several cartoons that are deeply critical of Israeli politicians and the US-Israel relationship.

Quite how these cartoons demonstrate a media bias in favor of israel is beyond me.

 

[nino_savatte]

Look ... shyster, in some parts of the world, is used as a racial slur. The point is, though, that astronauts opinion on that word is irrelevant to the discussion here. As is my nationality.

And no I do not describe people with different ideologies than my own as anti-american (unless they are, of course). I've been on the recieving end of that sort of crap too often.

No, "shyster" is not used as racial slur - that is a lie. There has already been a thread about this subject and astronaut had to retract his accusation in the face of overwhelming and incontrovertible evidence. I suggest you do the same before you lose any more credibility.

 

[angry bob]

The simple fact is that the dominant culture has taken the side of Israel whether you agree with that or not.

I do agree with that.

 

[nino_savatte]

Just to clarify my position.

It is my opinion that the US media displays an unfair bias in favor of Israel at the expense of Palestine.

This thread is odd though. The OP starts by saying that he could only find cartoons that were 'pro-Israeli', and then posts several cartoons that are deeply critical of Israeli politicians and the US-Israel relationship.

Quite how these cartoons demonstrate a media bias in favor of israel is beyond me.

It isn't just the cartoons though - is it? It's the way the media is alleged to report the conflict by certain sections of country: the right wing media, the think tanks and other agents of the state. It all amounts to a concerted effort to close down discourse.

 

[angry bob]

No, "shyster" is not used as racial slur - that is a lie. There has already been a thread about this subject and astronaut had to retract his accusation in the face of overwhelming and incontrovertible evidence. I suggest you do the same before you lose any more credibility.

What ... nowhere ... by no-one? Ever?

In some places, by some people, at some times, it has been.

http://www.rsdb.org/search?q=shyster

Now I agree that use of the word is mostly not racist.

In a similar way, all over the south 'niggardly' is used (by the ignorant) to be a racial slur ... even though it really isnt.

Anyhow ... its all irrelevant here ... which is the point I was trying to make.

 

[angry bob]

It isn't just the cartoons though - is it? It's the way the media is alleged to report the conflict by certain sections of country: the right wing media, the think tanks and other agents of the state. It all amounts to a concerted effort to close down discourse.

No ... it isnt just cartoons. Cartoons are just one aspect.

But wouldnt you consider the cartoon in post 3 to be displaying a bias in favor of israel? i.e. taking a very one-sided view?

 

[nino_savatte]

What ... nowhere ... by no-one? Ever?

In some places, by some people, at some times, it has been.

http://www.rsdb.org/search?q=shyster

Now I agree that use of the word is mostly not racist.

In a similar way, all over the south 'niggardly' is used (by the ignorant) to be a racial slur ... even though it really isnt.

Anyhow ... its all irrelevant here ... which is the point I was trying to make.

The roots of the word "niggardly" are different to the word "nigger" afaik. It sounds awfully close but it isn't...anymore than word "country" is based on the word "cunt".

 

[rachamim18]

GMarthews: Your cartoon obsession is very strange, to say the least. That being as it may, your first cartoon is blatantly anti-Israel. Ironic. The second one IS pro-Israeli, but the third is agin blatantly anti-Israel. You seem to be a bit confused. then, your 4th is also clearly anti-Israel. As is the 5th. Ok, you have supplied 5. 4 of them are VERY anti-Israel. Seems to me you proved my point, although editorial cartoons do not prove anything as far as systematic bias.

Nino: Why do you only attack people whose viewpoint differes from your own. It is pretty transparent. you feel differently? fine. why drag people, and this thread down with nonsense? GMathews made a point. Astronaut offered a valid rebuttal. Yet you accuse Astronaut of smearing the thread?

GenghisCohen: Thanks for telling people my true feelings [sic] but like the rest of your post, you are way off. I certainly do believe what I posted. I NEVER offer disingenuous opinions. I see the press in America as heavily biased against Israel. there are outlets that definitely lean the other way but it is my opinion that most are anti-Israel.

In fact you make no sense in your post. Um, if you criticise a nation for being outside the law, yes, you are certainly against it. instead of arguing for arguing's sake, why not do soemthing revolutionary, offer some actual insight.

AngryBob: I do not know what US media outlets you follow, but the ones I observe offer the exact opposite of a "pro-Israeli bias." they report "Palestinian" atrocities against Israelis, but not Israeli atrocities aginst "Palestinians?" I read the NY Times, NY Daily News, NY Post, Newark star Ledger, Tampa Tribune, and Washington Post. I watch CNN and Fox in addition to international news outlets. with the exception of the NY Post and Fox, all outlets listed serve a decidedly anti-Israel slant.

Panda: I think alot of people, myself included, use "Israeli" to [erroneously] describe the state [as in "anti-Israeli cartoons"].

 

[nino_savatte]

No ... it isnt just cartoons. Cartoons are just one aspect.

But wouldnt you consider the cartoon in post 3 to be displaying a bias in favor of israel? i.e. taking a very one-sided view?

It's just a political perspective. I see plenty of right wing cartoons, such as those by Jim "I'm not very funny" Huber, but I don't see them as pro or anti anything tbh.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino: Why do you only attack people whose viewpoint differes from your own. It is pretty transparent. you feel differently? fine. why drag people, and this thread down with nonsense? GMathews made a point. Astronaut offered a valid rebuttal. Yet you accuse Astronaut of smearing the thread?

It's easy to accuse me of "attacking others who disagree with me" only because I dare to challenge astronaut and you. You're trying to personalise this now and it's pretty damned shabby from where I'm standing.

You haven't been reading the thread or, rather, you have chosen to read it the way you want to read it.

The labels "pro" or "anti" are extremely unhelpful for the reasons I have outlined.

 

[angry bob]

AngryBob: I do not know what US media outlets you follow, but the ones I observe offer the exact opposite of a "pro-Israeli bias." they report "Palestinian" atrocities against Israelis, but not Israeli atrocities aginst "Palestinians?" I read the NY Times, NY Daily News, NY Post, Newark star Ledger, Tampa Tribune, and Washington Post. I watch CNN and Fox in addition to international news outlets. with the exception of the NY Post and Fox, all outlets listed serve a decidedly anti-Israel slant.

Eh? ... they do not.

As you say (although maybe this was a misprint)

they report "Palestinian" atrocities against Israelis, but not Israeli atrocities aginst "Palestinians

thus giving the impression that all the violence in the region is the result of palestinian terrorism ... which is clearly not the case.

Some news outlets are more guilty of this than others ...

but FOX?? Come on now ....

 

[ViolentPanda]

Panda: I think alot of people, myself included, use "Israeli" to [erroneously] describe the state [as in "anti-Israeli cartoons"].

Exactly, and it really fucks me off because Israel (the nation-state) is not synonymous with Israeli (a citizen of the nation-state of Israel).

One can be against the policies of the nation-state of Israel without being against the vast majority of Israeli people.

 

[astronaut]

Bottomline: I still haven't seen ANY sort of evidence that the cartoons aren't anti-Israel. Instead, the thread has been pushed in a new tangent about "pro" and "anti" labels. That is utter crap. Where is some evidence that the cartoons aren't anti-Israel, or was that a deliberate strategy to troll the thread?

 

[astronaut]

Exactly, and it really fucks me off because Israel (the nation-state) is not synonymous with Israeli (a citizen of the nation-state of Israel).

One can be against the policies of the nation-state of Israel without being against the vast majority of Israeli people.

Semantics, shemantics.

I see many people as being BOTH anti-Israel AND anti-Israeli, and not caring one little bit about the 'i'.

 

[astronaut]

"Tore into him"? That's a little dramatic - isn't it?

No.

I had the right to challenge him on this issue.

True, but the manner in which you did it was as a troll, not someone interested in sensible conversation.

The cartoons aren't "pro" or "anti" anything, they merely comment on the political state of affairs that has existed for decades and the US and Israel's continued obstruction of the peace process.

This is extremely disingeneous, to say the very least.

The cartoons are clearly opposed to a perceived political state of affairs.

The stated political state of affairs that is being critiqued is of Israel as the bad guy.

To argue that this does not make them "anti-Israel" is utter nonsense.

Only a troll would argue these cartoon aren't anti-Israel.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Semantics, shemantics.

I see many people as being BOTH anti-Israel AND anti-Israeli, and not caring one little bit about the 'i'.

It's not "semantics", the two things are different.

As for the many people you see, who gives a shit? Not me because it isn't germane to the difference I mentioned between the state and its' citizens.

Am I supposed to say "hey, astronaut's limited experience should obviously over-ride not only common-sense, but fact too!"?

Not likely.

 

[angry bob]

The roots of the word "niggardly" are different to the word "nigger" afaik. It sounds awfully close but it isn't...anymore than word "country" is based on the word "cunt".

You're absolutley right. But that doesnt stop those who dont know any better from using it as a racial slur.

Some politician was effectively fired a while back for using it (in a non-racist way)

 

[nino_savatte]

No.






True, but the manner in which you did it was as a troll, not someone interested in sensible conversation.






This is extremely disingeneous, to say the very least.

The cartoons are clearly opposed to a perceived political state of affairs.

The stated political state of affairs that is being critiqued is of Israel as the bad guy.

To argue that this does not make them "anti-Israel" is utter nonsense.

Only a troll would argue these cartoon aren't anti-Israel.

Only a troll would insist that his reading of the text (the cartoons) is the correct one. You're a little holier-than-thou, which makes conversation, with one such as you, practically impossible. You aren't here to discuss, you are here to tell us that we are all "extremists" if we don't agree with you. If you can't get your own way, you lie, you spin and you twist.

If you're going to get into a discussion about any aspect of the media, you should know what you are talking about and it is clear that you do not.

You demonise and you smear. That is all you have and that is the way of the US right and its allies: the Rapturists and the Zionists. If you can't convince someone of the merits of your argument, smear them - it's quicker and easier and tha way you can pretend that you're morally superior to those with whom you disagree.

 

[rachamim18]

AngryBoB: With a subject like this [media bias] it is deifnitely about perception. You and I differ of course and that is all that can really be said on it. I will add though, that I often note that Arabs view the media bias in a completely opposite way from Jews [I have acknowledged that it is all opinion].

Panda: But there are of course times when the label "Israeli" IS applicqable...as in "Israeli military," or "Israeli actions." Ergo, it is not a grea leap between the two.