Prisoners paid £750,000 for 'cold turkey' in jail

[detective-boy]

But surely that is the case for a lot of prisoners at the moment?

I don't think any differential in access to services can be justified per se. There MAY be a greater good in relation to providing additional services such as education or anger management or whatever as part of a rehabilitation regime but it makes absolutely no sense for them not to be available prior to ofending as part of an overall crime prevention / reduction strategy.

I really do not see there is any fairness, justice or logic in people getting better access to services after offending than before. (Whether that equality needs to be addressed by improving access on the outside rather than reducing access on the inside depends on the circumstances of each particular service but absolute entitlement should be equal unless there are very, very good grounds for it not being)

 

[Thora]

I really do not see there is any fairness, justice or logic in people getting better access to services after offending than before. (Whether that equality needs to be addressed by improving access on the outside rather than reducing access on the inside depends on the circumstances of each particular service but absolute entitlement should be equal unless there are very, very good grounds for it not being)

I agree - but we should be insisting on equalling up, not down. Why wouldn't we want to improve access for everyone rather than reduce it for some?

 

[Jonti]

How bad is heroin withdrawal anyway?

Withdrawal is commonly overstated by media and tends to be similar to bad case of flu. This is due to the fact that most opioid users don't tend to be able to acquire enough drug to result in severe withdrawal. It must be noted that physical symptoms may be similar to flu, psychological symptoms can be quite painful. Depression, mood swings, hypersensitivity to pain are some common symptoms.

Opioid withdrawal DOES NOT endanger life as does alcohol and other depressant withdrawal. source

The issue is obviously emotive, but it really comes down to the fact that the Prison Service erred, in a fairly minor way. The people affected by that error have been compensated, and quite properly so, imho.

 

[bmd]

I haven't read the whole thread as no doubt it would piss me off too much but I applied for this back in 2003 and was informed that the solicitors handling the claims had closed the books on it and were taking it forward as a test case with the clients they had.

I was informed at the time that they believed that the prison service would settle out of court so that they wouldn't be liable for any more claims.

Why did I apply? I had been receiving a script for an opiate substitute for 10 years before I was jailed, when I got to prison they offered me 3 codeine tablets and that was it. It took 6 months before I felt anywhere near normal (believe that or not I aren't going to argue with you) and during the first month I lost a stone in weight because I couldn't eat.

I had broken the law and was sentenced for it, I have no argument with that but the judge never sentenced me to the pain and suffering I went through. Being in jail is shit enough without being put through mental and physical pain merely because of the way the prison service views people with a drug problem.

Anyway, as you were.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I haven't read the whole thread as no doubt it would piss me off too much but I applied for this back in 2003 and was informed that the solicitors handling the claims had closed the books on it and were taking it forward as a test case with the clients they had.

I was informed at the time that they believed that the prison service would settle out of court so that they wouldn't be liable for any more claims.

Why did I apply? I had been receiving a script for an opiate substitute for 10 years before I was jailed, when I got to prison they offered me 3 codeine tablets and that was it. It took 6 months before I felt anywhere near normal (believe that or not I aren't going to argue with you) and during the first month I lost a stone in weight because I couldn't eat.

I had broken the law and was sentenced for it, I have no argument with that but the judge never sentenced me to the pain and suffering I went through. Being in jail is shit enough without being put through mental and physical pain merely because of the way the prison service views people with a drug problem.

Anyway, as you were.

For me your last paragraph says it all. You've been sentenced, you're doing your time.
That's all it should be about, doing your time.
Not about whining idiots implying inmates should be treated like shit because said idiot resents "picking up the tab" (usually the same type of wanker who sticks two fingers up at th tax man once a year).
Not about receiving what amounts to extra punishment because you have a substance use problem.
Not about being subject to the vagaries of "criminal justice" policy made by people who aren't interested in doing what's right, only in doing what is vote-worthy.

 

[TAE]

I don't understand this whole business of the Home Office or whoever having to do what a court says.

Why should the home office be above the law?

 

[TAE]

http://www.druglibrary.org/gh/how_bad_is_heroin_withdrawal.htm

He admits that ...

I get angry letters from addicts claiming that such articles vastly understate the torture of heroin withdrawal.

I'm not surprised.

 

[Jonti]

I should have been clear I meant relative to some past errors when I wrote that the Prison Service erred in a fairly minor way. Recovery from drug dependency can be very painful and difficult. While we're on the topic, here's something for the secularists (godly or "higher power" types having NA etc already).

 

[bmd]

I should have been clear I meant relative to some past errors when I wrote that the Prison Service erred in a fairly minor way. Recovery from drug dependency can be very painful and difficult. While we're on the topic, here's something for the secularists (godly or "higher power" types having NA etc already).

Show me the money! Oh wait...there it is.

Make a plan to devote some time at the RR bookstore to get authentic Rational Recovery® literature and multimedia productions on AVRT-based recovery.

That said I think their view is as valid as any other. It just costs a bit more.

 

[bmd]

What if it was cigarettes instead of heroin? Would the claim still stand?

Nicotne patches were so freely available in jail when I was there that they had no value whatsoever, unlike, say, shower gel, which is a part of the prison currency system.

There are some jails that have a no smoking policy but they offer nicotine patches and a fast ship out for anyone who wants it.

 

[IMHO]

Drugs are illegal. The addicts should not have taken illegal substances. To expect the prison service to provide treatment for illegal activity is ridiculous.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Drugs are illegal. The addicts should not have taken illegal substances. To expect the prison service to provide treatment for illegal activity is ridiculous.

What's ridiculous is you making ill-informed comments based on your prejudices.

Given that at the time these problems occurred (and since) it was part of the Prison Service's remit (i.e. a statutory obligation) to provide treatment to ameliorate the results of drug addiction, then expecting them to do so isn't "ridiculous" at all. Far better for the Prison Service to provide some treatment "at source" at the "reception" stage than to shift people onto the wings while they're clucking and extremely vulnerable.

You obviously have no idea how a prison functions day-to-day. If you did you'd have an inkling that having a relatively passive inmate population is far better for all concerned than having a nick full of angry, annoyed or edgy inmates.

 

[nino_savatte]

These people do not deserve compensation. They are in prison, guilty of reasonably serious crimes.

Why should the rest of us pay for their treatment?

If you had conducted an instant opinion poll on this, I *know* the majority would have said "no compensation".

Take drugs. Don't take drugs. Your choice.

If you do, and then end up by your own actions somewhere where you can't get more drugs, why is that anyone else's problem except yours?

I don't understand this whole business of the Home Office or whoever having to do what a court says. Who runs the country, anyway? Some out-of-touch judge? Lets have some people power, I say!

Giles..

Bring back the birch - eh, Giles?

Hang 'em
Flog 'em
Burn 'em

 

[nino_savatte]

Drugs are illegal. The addicts should not have taken illegal substances. To expect the prison service to provide treatment for illegal activity is ridiculous.

People shouldn't do a lot of things...but they do. People are being told that 4x4s are dangerous but folk still drive them.

These prisoners were suffering from addictions, which is a form of illness and as such should be treated like any other illness. The Prison Service was negligent in its responsibilities towards these prisoners. Maybe they should be transported - non?

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

I ncan't believe that no-one has mentioned the classic sun headline the day after the court case - 'hey hey we're the junkies' fooking class.








i'll get me coat

 

[TAE]

Drugs are illegal. The addicts should not have taken illegal substances. To expect the prison service to provide treatment for illegal activity is ridiculous.

The prison service only deals with those who are (thought to be) law breakers. Should they not provide food and clothing either?

 

[Mallard]

Prisoners should have the same medical rights as anyone else. Methadone treatment etc. Cold turkey imposed strikes be as brutal.

 

[Blagsta]

Drugs are illegal. The addicts should not have taken illegal substances. To expect the prison service to provide treatment for illegal activity is ridiculous.

Some of them were already on methadone scripts. A legally prescribed medication for a recognised condition. To deny legally prescribed medication is inhumane. End of story.

 

[Mallard]

Some of them were already on methadone scripts. A legally prescribed medication for a recognised condition. To deny legally prescribed medication is inhumane. End of story.

I'm struggling to imagine why they did it. Seems rather sadistic to me.

 

[Blagsta]

Enforced cluck in custody is depressingly common. Many of our clients at work get denied their methadone when arrested. They get a couple of valies instead.

 

[Mallard]

Enforced cluck in custody is depressingly common. Many of our clients at work get denied their methadone when arrested. They get a couple of valies instead.

I can imagine witholding the stuff might help the cops get a confession. In these cases I see Cold Turkey being used as a punishment. A lot of people seem to think that those in custody deserve this in the current 'guilty till innocent climate' and retribution hungry atmosphere. I can't see it helping to rehabilitate people either. The powers that be can get away with this as defending the rights of addicts in custody is hardly popular these days.

 

[Blagsta]

Gile's and IMHO's attitudes on this thread are sadly quite common. Some people still seem to view addiction as some kind of moral failing and want to punish addicts accordingly.

 

[Mallard]

Gile's and IMHO's attitudes on this thread are sadly quite common. Some people still seem to view addiction as some kind of moral failing and want to punish addicts accordingly.

Agreed. It's the retribution culture. For some people there will never be enough prisons/harsh enough punishments. It's easy to sit and judge others situations (particularly prisoners) smugly I suppose but doesn't actually help people or solve these problems.

 

[detective-boy]

I can imagine witholding the stuff might help the cops get a confession.

Your prejudices are showing.

You can "imagine" all you like but (a) we're talking about prison here, not police detention, so the time for confessions has been and gone, (b) any confession made by someone suffering withdrawal would not be worth the tape it's recorded on and hence the police do everything they can to ensure that appropriate treatment is provided and prisoners are fit to be interviewed, as certified by a medical practitioner and reviewed by the prisoner's solicitor and (c) we're talking about prison officers here, not cops.

 

[Blagsta]

hence the police do everything they can to ensure that appropriate treatment is provided

This is just not true. Maybe you were a good conscientous cop. Plenty aren't. Being denied methadone by the police when arrested is sadly all too common.

 

[Mallard]

This is just not true. Maybe you were a good conscientous cop. Plenty aren't. Being denied methadone by the police when arrested is sadly all too common.

I'm afraid experience tells me it's not universally true either.

 

[Azrael]

This isn't torture. Torture is using pain to extract information: no one was using withdrawal to get confessions (as a poster imaginatively suggested above). It could be assault, or, if the men died as a result of withdrawal, manslaughter, but not torture.

Should prisoners suffer while they're inside? Yes. They should atone for their wrongs through physical hardship. Prison should for punishment, not just somewhere you're quarantined as punishment.

But should a medical addiction, self-inflicted or otherwise, be co-opted as a means of punishment? No. That's cruel and unusual if ever I saw it. Punishment should be applied uniformly through hard labour and Spartan conditions, not arbitrarily through exploiting the misfortune of a drug addiction. But until proper punishment is imposed by the reintroduction of penal servitude, justice is not being done, and people will lend their support to sadistic practices like this as a substitute.

 

[Blagsta]

I'm wondering what would constitute "proper punishment" in your eyes?

 

[Azrael]

I already said, twice: hard labour, or penal servitude as it's properly called. Treadmills, breaking rocks, you know the form. Some of the many Victorian methods listed here.

The giant hamster wheel is particularly imaginative.

 

[Blagsta]

What do you think that will achieve?