Primary schools in the south Brixton area

[co-op]

Lots of the Lambeth / Brixton secular schools are doing really well and not lagging behind the faith schools at all, especially if you look at the Value Added scores, which are a greater measure of the education on offer. Sadly the demographic intake of a school has a huge impact on results. There need to be more non-faith primary places in Brixton / Herne Hill, because so many are faith schools at present, AND investment in the social factors behind under achievement. Look at the relative catchments of Sudbourne and Fenstanton or Jubilee.

At primary school level home effect massively outweighs school effect. The whole "good" school debate is highly debatable anyway but at Primary level it's just rubbish - if you are a well-educated person, your child wil do well, if not they won't simple as that. The evidence for this is overwhelming.

Also - back to the whole results nonsense - many highly developed European countries (eg Denmark) don't even start reading classes etc until after age 7 let alone have SATS for them.

Basically most of this debate is about weird middle-class parents freaking out about their children having to mix with working class or black children.

 

[clandestino]

re. Fenstanton becoming a secondary school, this was decided by Lambeth as a result of a consulation a few years back. There was a big push from a parents' group for there to be a school on Brixton Hill near the windmill but that was rejected as a result of some fairly shoddy decision making iirc - certainly due process wasn't followed whatever your opinion of the final decision (on other hand the parents' group has been criticised as being middle class and unrepresentative).

That's interesting. Any idea when will it become a secondary?

 

[clandestino]

I'd say East Brixton was the bit east of the railway line, you're right that South Brixton doesn't really describe the area in question either.

"The place where Effra Primary School used to be" sums it up pretty well, handy explanation for anyone who doesn't remember that far back, as to how it ended up like this.

I've checked where the Effra Primary School used to be and you'll be relieved to hear that that is central Brixton, east central if you'd like to be precise. Anything north of Water Lane is no longer south Brixton.

 

[Winot]

That's interesting. Any idea when will it become a secondary?

Not sure - I would guess that its future is in jeopardy since Gove cut Building Schools for the Future, but I can't see it on this list, unless it's the Huxleyesque "Lambeth 4".

Nothing recent on Lambeth website.

 

[Ms Ordinary]

I've checked where the Effra Primary School used to be and you'll be relieved to hear that that is central Brixton, east central if you'd like to be precise. Anything north of Water Lane is no longer south Brixton.

I was going to try & call it South Central Brixton but it didn't sound quite right for an area that overlaps with North West Herne Hill

 

[clandestino]

Not sure - I would guess that its future is in jeopardy since Gove cut Building Schools for the Future, but I can't see it on this list, unless it's the Huxleyesque "Lambeth 4".

Nothing recent on Lambeth website.

Eeek! Report to Lambeth 4 for programming...

I guess now that the Elmgreen secondary has opened, it could be argued there's less need, maybe?

 

[nagapie]

I guess now that the Elmgreen secondary has opened, it could be argued there's less need, maybe?

This school year Lambeth was about 99 secondary places short, all boys.

 

[OpalFruit]

Basically most of this debate is about weird middle-class parents freaking out about their children having to mix with working class or black children.

Very true, but there is also an actual shortage of local spaces. It's excellent that Winot has discovered that King's Avenue is doing a great job, but it's a fair walk from Hayter Rd to King's Avenue, for a 5 year old.

Winot - siblings and people who rent in Hayter Rd in the year before admissions

The Fenstanton decision was taken after Elm Green was up and running, so I don't think it's either / or.

 

[gaijingirl]

Seriously though, investment in schools in South Brixton won't help you find a school within walking distance if you live in "The place where Effra Primary School used to be", even though it would be a good thing in itself to invest in those schools.

Jubilee is very much in walking distance of Effra Parade.

 

[ash]

But is it a good school!!??

 

[Ms Ordinary]

All I know is that 8 years ago it was new & shiny & we'd have loved a place there (especially since the places there were actually supposed to replace places at Effra as well as at Brockwell School), but back then if you lived up by Effra Parade you hadn't a hope of getting in.

It sounds from posts on this thread, that it's now a school that Poets Corner parents won't touch with a bargepole, and would rather campaign to have a new school built or St. Judes expanded, than send their kids to So it's probably easier to get a place there these days?

Which certainly doesn't mean it couldn't be a good school...

 

[Winot]

Very true, but there is also an actual shortage of local spaces.

There may well be now, but when we entered the system King's Avenue was actually under-subscribed. Since then it has gone to 3 form entry to 2 form entry, and I think this year it may be over-subscribed.

It's excellent that Winot has discovered that King's Avenue is doing a great job, but it's a fair walk from Hayter Rd to King's Avenue, for a 5 year old.

Not too much of a problem this. 20 min walk tops (with a five year old).*

Winot - siblings and people who rent in Hayter Rd in the year before admissions

This is certainly true - do you know something I do too?

* edit to add - what is a problem is artificially not going to the same school as the other kids on our road; that is odd.

 

[gaijingirl]

I know Jubilee a bit - it's opposite my flat and I've been in and out a few times for the children's centre. My neighbour's children went there - most of the kids where I live go there. The Ofsted isn't great. I've spoken to a few people in the know who aren't impressed. My own observations haven't been fantastic to be honest. Whenever the great primary discussion happens with Poet's Corner/HH parents - it just kind of gets brushed over - it's like it's totally out of the equation. It's a really difficult problem. The fact of the matter is, it largely serves the children off the Tulse Hill estate and therefore it has a lot of children coming from a lot of difficult backgrounds.

I see in my own classes all the time. If we put all the "naughty/difficult/lower ability" kids with difficult parents in one class and all the motivated, hard-working kids with supportive parents in another - we end up with one class where you're just trying to keep them from trashing the classroom, each other and yourself. Mix it up and, if you get the balance right and make sure everyone is being challenged, the kids who are struggling often settle down and become more motivated. I think if there were a better balance in Jubilee - ie if more Poet's Corner/HH parents sent their kids to Jubilee, plus if their parents became involved in the running, the school would certainly change. Jessops is somewhere else I go to from time to time and I think that's what is, or will be, happening there.

However, people are scared. Nobody wants to be the person taking a risk with their child's education/future. The school will have to show considerable signs of improvement before parents will think about sending their kids there. If I'm honest, I wouldn't want to send my little girl there right now - from what I've seen. However, my impression is that they're working hard to make improvements and I really hope that they get there.

We're going through a similar process in my own school - we're struggling to improve results but also the reputation our school has amongst local families. Very very slowly there are less awful news stories about us and more positive ones. Our intake hasn't changed - but the management of the school has. We always had talented students (of exactly the sort of intake at Jubilee), but all anyone saw/knew about was the ones getting in trouble. Finally after lots of hard work our results were better this year, we've seen more parents coming to our open day and open mornings. Parents are leaving with a good impression of the school and more are showing interest in sending their children to us. Whereas, last year (and for many years) we had something like 11 students putting us down as their first choice - meaning something like 150 came to us as they didn't get into the school they wanted to go to or came as refugee/asylum seekers mid-year or they moved to the area mid-year. So many factors have helped us get to the stage where we've finally reached the bottom of the rollercoaster and we're now back on the up - well hopefully anyway, it's early days yet. If I were visiting Jubilee with a view to sending my child there I would be asking lots of questions and paying a lot of attention to those factors.

 

[co-op]

I see in my own classes all the time. If we put all the "naughty/difficult/lower ability" kids with difficult parents in one class and all the motivated, hard-working kids with supportive parents in another - we end up with one class where you're just trying to keep them from trashing the classroom, each other and yourself. Mix it up and, if you get the balance right and make sure everyone is being challenged, the kids who are struggling often settle down and become more motivated. I think if there were a better balance in Jubilee - ie if more Poet's Corner/HH parents sent their kids to Jubilee, plus if their parents became involved in the running, the school would certainly change. Jessops is somewhere else I go to from time to time and I think that's what is, or will be, happening there.

However, people are scared. Nobody wants to be the person taking a risk with their child's education/future. .

Good post.

However, as I said before, the evidence doesn't support the idea that 'school effect' (especially at primary level) outweighs 'home effect' - certainly that's the evidence for academic outcomes. The problem is no one seems to know this and so everyone obsesses about getting their child into a "good school". Sadly New Labour utterly pandered to this agenda and so it's become utterly dominant.

 

[Winot]

Lots of (perfectly human) middle class angst about this topic. We were one of the families who failed to get into Sudbourne for the last academic year despite living on Hayter Rd itself (there were lots of siblings that year). Lambeth sent us to King's Avenue school. Cue middle class flight, with various families either going private or further afield - we thought we'd see how it went and the school has been bloody fantastic, to the extent that if a place came up at Sudbourne now I don't think we'd take it.

An update on this topic - pleased to report that King's Avenue School has just had an Ofsted inspection and it has been found to be a "Good" school (was previously "satisfactory") with Outstanding pastoral care.

 

[sandsmum]

Lots of (perfectly human) middle class angst about this topic. We were one of the families who failed to get into Sudbourne for the last academic year despite living on Hayter Rd itself (there were lots of siblings that year). Lambeth sent us to King's Avenue school. Cue middle class flight, with various families either going private or further afield - we thought we'd see how it went and the school has been bloody fantastic, to the extent that if a place came up at Sudbourne now I don't think we'd take it.




Its really useful to read this - as we are likely to be one of those families who don't get into Sudbourne but get offered King's Avenue. Their recent OFSTED is encouraging, but I appreciate there is alot more to being a good school than the OFSTED alone! It would be great if you (or any other King's Avenue parents) could expand on why it's "bloody fantastic"!

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Basically most of this debate is about weird middle-class parents freaking out about their children having to mix with working class or black children.

I reckon that's a large part of it. I work in a C of E secondary school (although there aren't that many C 0f E kids there and quite a few atheists and muslims) and there are a lot of black kids, who are more likely to be from 'real' Christian families rather than white middle-class parents who suddenly 'find God' in their catchment area.

 

[Gramsci]

You'd never guess that I'm a pissed off former member would you? ;-)

I always like reading you posts. I get the feeling that Lambeth Labour have lost a lot of members over recent years.

I friend of mine was a parent opposing the closing of the old Effra school. He was told that those parents opposing its closure were being being selfish. The officers told the parents that they predicted that the need for places would reduce as the population was falling. Didnt make sense then except to the Council. The Cllrs didn't have to follow officers advice when so many local parents opposed the loss of that site.

 

[co-op]

I friend of mine was a parent opposing the closing of the old Effra school. He was told that those parents opposing its closure were being being selfish. The officers told the parents that they predicted that the need for places would reduce as the population was falling. Didnt make sense then except to the Council. The Cllrs didn't have to follow officers advice when so many local parents opposed the loss of that site.

TBF I seem to remember that there was some evidence produced that showed populations had been/would continue to fall and that Brixton had an over-supply issue - although already the area was being gentrified and there were loads of visible newcomers. But the council's focus was rather clearly revealed by a comment made by Jim Dickson at the meeting mentioned earlier (I snuck in) - he said that 'traditionally when people had children round here they moved out to Streatham and places like that where they could afford a garden' (I'm not swearing these are the exact words he used) - clearly revealing that the only people that he was thinking about were the wealthy incomers who could afford to do that.

IIRC Jim's own children went to Effra when he lived locally and - as I said before - he waited until he had moved into the Rosendale catchment, a nice tory ward far more suitable for his own children, before voting to close Effra down.

 

[Bob]

TBF I seem to remember that there was some evidence produced that showed populations had been/would continue to fall and that Brixton had an over-supply issue - although already the area was being gentrified and there were loads of visible newcomers. But the council's focus was rather clearly revealed by a comment made by Jim Dickson at the meeting mentioned earlier (I snuck in) - he said that 'traditionally when people had children round here they moved out to Streatham and places like that where they could afford a garden' (I'm not swearing these are the exact words he used) - clearly revealing that the only people that he was thinking about were the wealthy incomers who could afford to do that.

IIRC Jim's own children went to Effra when he lived locally and - as I said before - he waited until he had moved into the Rosendale catchment, a nice tory ward far more suitable for his own children, before voting to close Effra down.

I have a feeling that evidence was believed because it was a convenient way to justify selling the site. There was rival evidence discussed in some depth at the time - I remember one of the first Lambeth local issues I got involved in (early 2000 I think) was a rival projection of school age population that the Lib Dem councillor for Stockwell (Anthony Bottrall) got commissioned.

 

[nagapie]

Totally off topic but does anyone know who the Lambeth head of services for under 5s is?

 

[Winot]

Its really useful to read this - as we are likely to be one of those families who don't get into Sudbourne but get offered King's Avenue. Their recent OFSTED is encouraging, but I appreciate there is alot more to being a good school than the OFSTED alone! It would be great if you (or any other King's Avenue parents) could expand on why it's "bloody fantastic"!

Well so far it's been great at the educational and the social/pastoral. Our daughter is happy, is clearly learning, and is being treated as an individual, as are the other kids in her class as far as I can tell (no mean feat when the variety of situations are taken into account). The school has a warm and positive ethos and is very strong at including and supporting SEN children, as Ofsted recognised.

I'd be happy to try to answer any questions you've got by phone if that would be helpful - just PM me.

 

[sandsmum]

thanks so much for that!

 

[clandestino]

Shocked at the latest incident at Fenstanton - a mum stabbed another mum in the forehead with a pair of scissors after an argument! Apologies for the Daily Fail link - there's a story in the free Lambeth paper that came today.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-mother-stabs-forehead.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

 

[snowy_again]

In slightly less scary news, the Herne Hill Forum has some updates on the campaign for more primary school places here:

http://www.hernehillforum.org.uk/ne...rum+e-bulletin+Feb+28th+2012&utm_medium=email

and a link to the actual document: http://www.hernehillforum.org.uk/si... Forum Schools presentation February 2012.pdf

 

[eroom]

Jessop Primary have just had an 'outstanding' Ofsted report. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the inspection system, it's a massive achievement and I hope everyone involved with the school is very proud indeed.