Primary school teachers where's the men?

[Sweet FA]

Have you ever taught reception, though?

No & I wouldn't want to really. It's a whole different ballgame down there. It's a really specialised role I think that doesn't really get the specific training it requires. I'd feel pretty out of my depth. Ime, reception teaching is seen as a bit of a dark art, that requires different skills to those needed from Year 1 up. I suspect this is why a lot of reception teachers stay with that year group for such a long time: noone else wants to/can do the job.

Also, I think that a class of Primary children is easier to manage than a class of Secondary children, less stressful.

Hahahahahaha Say that again after a day with 32 x 6 year olds. Herding cats is a far simpler exercise. Experienced teachers can make it look like a piece of piss. It's really not. Secondary age children have been institutionalised by the system; they know the rules and choose whether to adhere to them or not. KS1 age children can be a law unto themselves, anarchy is only ever a badly handled transition away.

I would find Primary teaching more appealing if I could specialise, as with Secondary teaching.

That's part of the joy of teaching primary though - teaching something new every hour. Anyway, you'll be forced to specialise to a certain extent as you'll have to take on a specific subject responsibility after your NQT year.

Because it is...society looks upon men who teach at that level as being unable to teach in secondary school.

Utter arse. If anything, male primary teachers, particularly those at KS1, are seen as sensitive, kind, caring souls, acting as role models in a fragmented society where many children don't have a stabilising male figure in the home. (They are in my head anyway). Also, to paraphrase something someone said earlier; chicks love it.

As has been mentioned before; the money's shit, the hours are fucking ridiculous, the thanks minimal. That's the same whether you're m/f though. If you go into teaching for the riches, the easy life and the respect and gratitude of everyone you meet, you might want to consider another career.

 

[Dan U]

the primary my g.friend has been teaching at for the last 3 years has 3 male teachers which is well above the average for the borough (croydon).

she was really surprised that when she and one of the guys left last term they did not replace one of them with a guy.

it's something the school has been big on in the past, actually having some male input.

lots of dads come in to the classes though and help out generally.

no idea if it is the same where she is from (australia) but i will ask her later

 

[kabbes]

I tell you what puts me off primary school teaching: the fact that all the freedom to direct your own syllabus has been removed in the pursuit of uniformity, targets and exams. I don't want to be told, "your children must do this, that and the other." In my primary school, I had some teachers whose passion was art and others who loved maths or English. So we ended up doing different things in different years, but overall it was a really good, rounded education. I fear that has been lost.

 

[Dan U]

oh and a good mate of mine is going to retrain as a Primary School Teacher.

his business is kaput, he's got two young kids and loves the whole going in to school thing and helping so is going to give it a go (he isn't being totally naive as his wife is an Ed Psych so he knows the score). he's not had any 'paedo' jokes from us

my mate who has just got a job as a caretaker at a primary school has had a few huntley jokes however...

 

[Dan U]

I tell you what puts me off primary school teaching: the fact that all the freedom to direct your own syllabus has been removed in the pursuit of uniformity, targets and exams. I don't want to be told, "your children must do this, that and the other." In my primary school, I had some teachers whose passion was art and others who loved maths or English. So we ended up doing different things in different years, but overall it was a really good, rounded education. I fear that has been lost.

where my girlfriend taught until last term, they didn't teach to the syllabus, they lesson planned each lesson, around a 'theme' for each term and the children chose their learning each day. they still learn what they need to learn but in a different way - i.e not this hour is english, this maths etc.

state school too, although OFSTED don't like em cos they are a bit too wibbly. parents love it though.

 

[kabbes]

I fear that your girlfriend's type of school are a dwindling minority.

 

[Dan U]

I fear that your girlfriend's type of school are a dwindling minority.

they have to fight really hard to maintain the 'ethos' of the school with OFSTED etc. The parents are powerful advocates of it.

she is Australian and has done a load of supply work across South London, before getting this job, and it is the only school she has worked in that she has really enjoyed and is closer to how she was trained in Oz.

It isn't perfect but it's a very good school - she still struggled with all the usual things that people do, like getting proper trained support for her Autistic kid she had last year in Year 1 - she was pretty much the only teacher in the school who was trained to deal with Autism (which she got in Australia where they develop teachers a lot more apparently) and that really pissed her off - especially as the kid developed so well in her class as opposed to how he was in reception and this school year she thinks he may go backwards as his teacher has no interest in 'special needs' kids. Even some of the TA's refused to work with him.

She was sad to leave in July.

 

[Red Cat]

do they? how does that work re: teachers' pay and conditions / national payscales???

My understanding is that its more to do with the way in which you can progress in secondary due to subject specialisation - so being head of dept and the like. I may be wrong about that though.

Ah you already said that...for some reason I only saw half the thread earlier.

 

[sim667]

Perhaps another area in which being a male is advantageous.

My mum is a principal of a college.........

Generally speaking i like to think that scum floats to the top of the pond (except my own mum of course)

 

[Hollis]

Around £27,000+ in London, around £21,000+ elsewhere.

That's really not bad for a starting salary. And in any case, looking at a starting salary is slightly irrelevant.

I suspect the majority of primary school teachers earn alot more than that.

Also, I'm sure I've heard there's a difficulty in recruiting heads - most consider the deputy head role provides a better balance of dosh and responsibility.

 

[Orang Utan]

That's really not bad for a starting salary. And in any case, looking at a starting salary is slightly irrelevant.

not if you're looking into training to be one

 

[_angel_]

That's not true.

Sure, there have long been more women - and there's nothing wrong with that, but the change, which some people are sad or bothered about, is that there are nowadays hardly any men going into primary teaching, for the reasons people have mentioned, so the current level of men among primary teachers - is it 15%, 10%? - is declining little by little as teachers retire and may soon get to the point of a male primary school teacher being a very odd creature.

(I must admit I have not seen any bang up to date figures on this. I am going on figures I read and half-remember in the TES three or four years ago. There have been some recent attempts, including some strange nonsense, to get men in. I don't know if there's been any success.)

I always thought men in infants were pretty rare. There was only one in our primary school although the age group stopped at age nine. Many many more at middle school 9-13 age group, though.

 

[Hollis]

not if you're looking into training to be one

Well - if you're changing jobs/career you're probably going to have to take a pay cut for anything.. so you probably need to think more than about the first couple years imo.. And £27k's actually a very good starting salary.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Given that they are meant to be trying to get more blokes to go into teaching, I do feel kind of arsed off about how I was treated generally on the course, given all I'd been through just to be on the fucking thing.

If anyone's thinking of training, don't do it at Newcastle uni. The people who run the course are so up their own arses.

 

[Jackobi]

I am lucky enough to have obtained a degree in a Secondary core curriculum subject, before it became part of the core curriculum [one of my better judgements]. It also seems set to become a Primary core curriculum subject within the next few years, so I may end up at least teaching my own subject for part of the time eventually.

It seems that I misunderstood an article I read.

My subject is ICT, and I was under the impression that ICT was not yet part of the primary curriculum, but it is.

Compulsory National Curriculum subjects for Key Stages 1 and 2:

* English
* Maths
* Science
* Design and technology
* Information and Communication Technology (ICT)
* History
* Geography
* Art and design
* Music
* Physical education

My confusion stemmed from an article on the Rose review which suggests that ICT should replace Science as a tested core primary subject.

 

[trashpony]

It seems that I misunderstood an article I read.

My subject is ICT, and I was under the impression that ICT was not yet part of the primary curriculum, but it is.

Compulsory National Curriculum subjects for Key Stages 1 and 2:

* English
* Maths
* Science
* Design and technology
* Information and Communication Technology (ICT)
* History
* Geography
* Art and design
* Music
* Physical education

My confusion stemmed from an article on the Rose review which suggests that ICT should replace Science as a tested core primary subject.

My brother in law teaches ICT and PE at primary level but he is one of only two male teachers in the school. I think the fact that women are more associated with nurturing has a lot to do with the lack of male teachers in primary schools. I'm really hoping that there are more men when my son starts in a few years - he needs all the male role models he can get

 

[Jackobi]

That's part of the joy of teaching primary though - teaching something new every hour. Anyway, you'll be forced to specialise to a certain extent as you'll have to take on a specific subject responsibility after your NQT year.

My brother in law teaches ICT and PE at primary level but he is one of only two male teachers in the school.

I presumed that a primary teacher taught all of the curriculum subjects, or was expected to be able to do so.

 

[trashpony]

I presumed that a primary teacher taught all of the curriculum subjects, or was expected to be able to do so.

Not so. Well not in private schools anyway, have no idea about state schools (my son is only 2.5 so I have no idea what the deal is with them re jack of all trades when it comes to specialist subjects like ICT and PE)

 

[spanglechick]

Not so. Well not in private schools anyway, have no idea about state schools (my son is only 2.5 so I have no idea what the deal is with them re jack of all trades when it comes to specialist subjects like ICT and PE)

ah - ime, primary teachers teach everything.

i have come across specialist peripatetic French teachers, but nothing else. Certainly when i have taught primary supply I taught the whole shooting match, including ICT, PE, Music...

 

[trashpony]

ah - ime, primary teachers teach everything.

i have come across specialist peripatetic French teachers, but nothing else. Certainly when i have taught primary supply I taught the whole shooting match, including ICT, PE, Music...

Much as I love my brother in law I suspect the fact that his ability to use English to any degree much beyond conversational (he is not English) means his pupils are probably better off with him steering clear of anything else. And I suppose specialism justifies the (probably) hideous fees the parents pay at his school ...