Primary school teachers where's the men?

[not-bono-ever]

the Mrs is doing a primary PGCE atm - seems to be about 80% women on the course -m it is however a foreign language focused PGCE - Im pretty sure that women are better at languages anyway/ skews the M/F ratio I suppose

 

[Sadken]

Little kids find men scary.

Even their fathers.

Total bullshit tbf. Sorry if you're joking.

 

[DotCommunist]

We all want to kill our fathers to possess our mothers. Or just Kens mum.

 

[Sadken]

Oh yeah, cos my mum is SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCH a big meme, isn't she? You seriously want to bring the pain again, DC? Cos I can start that meme up again like THAT, baby! Like THAT! One word from Big Daddy Ken and the DC Mum bandwagon takes to the road again.

 

[8ball]

Total bullshit tbf. Sorry if you're joking.

No. It's true. Was when I was a kid, anyway.

Though I may have missed out some gender disparity in terms of how much it applies to boys and girls.

And, when I was a kid, there may have been an element of the fact that it was well known that male teachers were far more keen on corporal punishment (which is a very scary prospect when you're 7).

 

[Sadken]

No. It's true. Was when I was a kid, anyway.

Though I may have missed out some gender disparity in terms of how much it applies to boys and girls.

And, when I was a kid, there may have been an element of the fact that it was well known that male teachers were far more keen on corporal punishment (which is a very scary prospect when you're 7).

Oh, well then, if that was your experience then I guess we can just apply that to literally ALL children and just be done with it. Sorry to have quibbled.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

My daughter's headteacher is a bloke. I think he's the only one in the school, apart from the obligatory paedo-caretaker, obv.

Some years ago I fancied being a primary teacher, before any uni would look at me I had to spend a day in a school, I approached about 10 before any would let me in, and even then I was made to feel very uncomfortable. Whereas I have a couple of female friends who's experiences were far more positive.

 

[_angel_]

Primary school teaching I'm guessing doesn't have the same prestige as later year teaching (mainly because it is mainly female I think, would this change if it became 50/50 male female split???) I have a male lecturer friend who expressed horror primary teachers then got paid more than junior lecturers and there's been one male poster here (no not on this thread) expressing disgust that primary teachers needed a degree - why just primary teachers they say this about (actually this posters other choice of profession that "didn't need a degree" was nursing) strangely enough both female dominated.

 

[kabbes]

1) Men are discouraged from working with young children generally by the fear of being stigmatised as some kind of nonce. I'm not sure that the stigma really exists, but the fear certainly does.

2) Working with young children was traditionally seen as "women's work", which was consequently given lower status and, crucially, lower pay. This differential exists to this day -- primary school teaching earns significantly less than secondary school teaching.

3) It takes a certain amount of courage to break into a field dominated by the opposite sex. This reduces the pool willing to give the profession a go.

4) This is a subpoint from 2) really, but what sadken says about the need for specialist training is aposite. A lot of men will consider primary school teaching only after already doing their degree. The idea of having to study for several more years -- and generally have to fund this -- only to receive a big downward step in pay is generally unattractive.

 

[spanglechick]

Primary school teaching I'm guessing doesn't have the same prestige as later year teaching (mainly because it is mainly female I think, would this change if it became 50/50 male female split???) I have a male lecturer friend who expressed horror primary teachers then got paid more than junior lecturers and there's been one male poster here (no not on this thread) expressing disgust that primary teachers needed a degree - why just primary teachers they say this about (actually this posters other choice of profession that "didn't need a degree" was nursing) strangely enough both female dominated.

this may be true,. but i'd say it's more often the case (and was for me) that secondary teaching gives you a chance to specialise in your subject, to stretch your own thinking about it every day - and althought there is also a nurturing role, it isn't as dominant as it is in primary. i would hate to teach primary - i'd miss the level of intellectual resopnse and creative nuance.

i don't view primary teachers as having a less prestigious job, but i do think their job is incredibly demanding and i'd never want to do it.

 

[_angel_]

Do primary school teachers still earn less than secondary ones ?

 

[kabbes]

Do primary school teachers still earn less than secondary ones ?

Yes, substantially so.

 

[Sadken]

Kabbes:

1)I think the stigma DOES exist, but only in the small minds of people you wouldn't really wanna talk to anyway, so fuck 'em.

2)The pay's actually pretty decent. The teacher who's class I was in had been doing it about 8 years and was on 40k. I was shocked at that. Also, my mum was a primary teacher/head all her career and managed to get a bit minted, relatively anyway.

3)Yes. It takes guts. And balls. Big balls. You need huge balls to work with young kids, basically.

4)Yeah, it's a motherfucker.

 

[spanglechick]

Yes, substantially so.

do they? how does that work re: teachers' pay and conditions / national payscales???

 

[Sadken]

Actually, I've just remembered I once saw Kabbes tip a waitress 40k, so maybe the money is not so good, relatively

 

[rioted]

Yes, substantially so.

No they don't.

 

[kabbes]

I might have to take it back about the payscales. Looking it up, it seems that my information may be somewhat out of date.

If they've balanced it up, that's good.

 

[spanglechick]

nothing on the NUT pay calculator suggests there's any difference. There used to be a lower rate of pay if you didn't have a degree - and i think non-degree teachers were more common in the primary sector - maybe it's that?

teaching hass been a graduate profession for donkeys' now, though.

eta - non graduates started on a lower point on the old pay spine - graduates went in at the equivalent of two years' experience, so the pay differential would even out after twelve years (top of the old pay spine) anyway.

 

[Ceej]

Fucking everywhere. I've filled out two more today, sent off three last week. I've got about six out there right now, but they're as rare as hens teeth. Apparently noone wants a NQT male primary teacher willing to move anywhere in the country to get a job. I don't even care about getting my NQT done this year now, I just want to do the job.

(

I've just taken on a male NQT in Yr 1...stick at it! We are lucky in the primary I work in - four male teachers out of 22 and three male TA's out of 17.
Hang in their Balbi - inner city schools are the ones crying out for men - good male role models and all that. No-one will appoint a mediocre man over a good woman, but if there isn't much to choose, the men definitely have the edge.

 

[Sweet FA]

I can't think of any male primary school teachers who are at infants/ reception age level ever - now or in the past

Me Miss! Me! I am!

I've taught Primary for the last couple of years. Year 2 last year, Year 5/6 now. I'm the only bloke in the building apart from the caretaker. It's hard work but good work.

 

[Hollis]

I think fewer men are in it due to low pay and perceived lower status, and less opportunity to progress.

I suspect its more to do with traditional male and female roles than this.

 

[scifisam]

Me Miss! Me! I am!

I've taught Primary for the last couple of years. Year 2 last year, Year 5/6 now. I'm the only bloke in the building apart from the caretaker. It's hard work but good work.

Have you ever taught reception, though? It's true that men are rarer there than in later years. My daughter's school has 3 male teachers out of 9, plus some TAs, but none of them are early years.

 

[clicker]

The only male in my kids primary school is the caretaker.....oh and now also the new the pe teacher. Both of them are generally worshipped by the kids and very highly thought of by the parents.....and the pe teacher is lush!

 

[8ball]

Oh, well then, if that was your experience then I guess we can just apply that to literally ALL children and just be done with it. Sorry to have quibbled.

Well, that's how things were when I was a kid. Things may have changed in some areas, or they may have changed to a degree everywhere, but I don't think my experience is entirely invalidated by that fact.

A lot of the population grew up in the 70s or earlier - that's going to take a while to work through the system.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

The general perception seems to be if you're a man and want to teach anyone under the age of 11 you're a potential paedorapistfiddler, which understandably puts quite a few men off.

I don't agree. All of my children had male teachers in elementary school. No doubt women were in the majority, but there were definitely males. I think the earliest for one child, was grade 3.

 

[rover07]

Its not really a mans job is it.

 

[Orang Utan]

less men want to do it.

however, a massive majority of the primary teachers i know are men. so they do exist - but on the whole, they don't seem to be attracted to the profession.

i'm toying with the idea of doing it as it happens

 

[Jackobi]

this may be true,. but i'd say it's more often the case (and was for me) that secondary teaching gives you a chance to specialise in your subject, to stretch your own thinking about it every day - and althought there is also a nurturing role, it isn't as dominant as it is in primary. i would hate to teach primary - i'd miss the level of intellectual resopnse and creative nuance.

I have decided to study for a Primary PGCE rather than a Secondary, partly out of convenience, and because I believe, perhaps falsely, that as a man I will be subject to positive discrimination during job selection.
Also, I think that a class of Primary children is easier to manage than a class of Secondary children, less stressful.

I am lucky enough to have obtained a degree in a Secondary core curriculum subject, before it became part of the core curriculum [one of my better judgements]. It also seems set to become a Primary core curriculum subject within the next few years, so I may end up at least teaching my own subject for part of the time eventually.

I would find Primary teaching more appealing if I could specialise, as with Secondary teaching.

 

[Orang Utan]

Its not really a mans job is it.

why do you say that?

 

[Orang Utan]

I have decided to study for a Primary PGCE rather than a Secondary, partly out of convenience, and because I believe, perhaps falsely, that as a man I will be subject to positive discrimination during job selection.

my cousin's partner was turned down for a job cos they said they needed a man