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Poot

Everyone's a superhero, everyone's a Captain Kirk
It might be worth explaining to your boy that their responsibility has to be with the vulnerable person, and that, as Marty says, they've used a pretty much scatter-gun approach that has no basis in anything but was probably intended to protect the vulnerable person with no thought for the actual law. I know it's massively frustrating, especially when he's doing alright. And I hope it doesn't make him feel persecuted. It's just a sticking plaster or at least an attempt at one.
 

Mrs Miggins

There's been a slight cheese accident
Methinks this kind of bullshit is what they do instead of actually dealing with anti social behaviour in a way that addressed actual causes, engaged with the people involved etc.

It reads like it was written by a simple person who once read an actual legal notice and thought they'd have a crack at it.
Yes - and given the situation that Edie is describing, how anyone thinks a letter like this will make the slightest difference to anything is an absolute fool!
 

marty21

One on one? You're crazy.
Methinks this kind of bullshit is what they do instead of actually dealing with anti social behaviour in a way that addressed actual causes, engaged with the people involved etc.

It reads like it was written by a simple person who once read an actual legal notice and thought they'd have a crack at it.
Closure Orders can be very effective, I've been involved with a few . They involved dealers taking over a flat and dealing out if it . In one case the two tenants below had to deal with crack users coming in and out throughout the day and night and were terrified.
 

SpookyFrank

Self-cleaning oven, the whole bit.
Closure Orders can be very effective, I've been involved with a few . They involved dealers taking over a flat and dealing out if it . In one case the two tenants below had to deal with crack users coming in and out throughout the day and night and were terrified.
And had anyone actually been on the ground dealing with this they'd know who the dealers were and would target them. It's ridiculous how shit police etc are at dealing with these kind of scumbags, who unlike the wire etc pretty much just sit there on the doorstep blatantly selling drugs.
 

Pickman's model

every man and every woman is a star
I’m not a council tennant btw I own the house, but there are a lot of tenanted properties around me. So I don’t think they can threaten my house?
i'd write back to yer man, and consider copying it to either a councillor or the chief executive of the council (it's bloody hard to find out yer man's manager's name, there's a load of secrecy in local government). i would point out the numerous errors in the post, not least of which are that neither are you a tenant nor, if you were, would your son be a signatory to the tenancy agreement. i would mention the absence of evidence for their contention. i would submit, finally, that the validity of the substantive point the council are trying to make, namely banning your son from the other side of the road, would not stand up to legal scrutiny. i would then end, as Athos suggests, with a 'but i welcome genuine dialogue to resolve any remaining matters'.

i would also consider complaining to the police about their involvement in an activity which seems to be more scare tactics than any actual legal service of a properly authorised and completed form.
 

Pickman's model

every man and every woman is a star
And had anyone actually been on the ground dealing with this they'd know who the dealers were and would target them. It's ridiculous how shit police etc are at dealing with these kind of scumbags, who unlike the wire etc pretty much just sit there on the doorstep blatantly selling drugs.
tbh in the wire that's pretty much what they're doing, standing on street corners or in the estate where so much of the action takes place in series 1
 

Pickman's model

every man and every woman is a star
It's just a blanket letter from someone at the council who cannot even be arsed to find out whether the properties actually are council properties or not. Feels like a sweeping judgement about all the kids on the street is being made. To be fair, the council employee in question probably doesn't have all the facts and probably doesn't have the time to do anything about getting them. Or just doesn't care.
the laziness involved makes it less likely that the letters would be effective as 'everyone else has had one and nothing ever happens' is likely to be many people's response to them.
 

Edie

Well-Known Member
For the record I’ve not been seeing my son as a victim. I’ve told him he was in the wrong telling them to fuck off, I’ve told him he’s brought this trouble to our door (the attacks on the house) from his poor choice of mates and we’ve had scenes when he’s crying and saying sorry when we’re all hid up in my room. I’ve also told him to have nothing to do with any of it, including the youth workers they sent round. And except for the tyres which really actually scared me I’ve not said a word to the police.
 

Pickman's model

every man and every woman is a star
For the record I’ve not been seeing my son as a victim. I’ve told him he was in the wrong telling them to fuck off, I’ve told him he’s brought this trouble to our door (the attacks on the house) from his poor choice of mates and we’ve had scenes when he’s crying and saying sorry when we’re all hid up in my room. I’ve also told him to have nothing to do with any of it, including the youth workers they sent round. And except for the tyres which really actually scared me I’ve not said a word to the police.
perhaps you need to say to the council and the police that what they're trying to do is wrong and while you're happy to talk to them to resolve concerns the cackhanded way they're proceeding is offensive.

e2a: also what people have said below
 
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Rutita1

Council Estate Socialist
For the record I’ve not been seeing my son as a victim. I’ve told him he was in the wrong telling them to fuck off, I’ve told him he’s brought this trouble to our door (the attacks on the house) from his poor choice of mates and we’ve had scenes when he’s crying and saying sorry when we’re all hid up in my room. I’ve also told him to have nothing to do with any of it, including the youth workers they sent round. And except for the tyres which really actually scared me I’ve not said a word to the police.
What has the latest attack against you/your property entailed?

I think you should be keeping a diary of all the incidents tbh Edie , your family is being harassed and you do not know how it may be escalated or not in the future.

If you can get hold of a couple of small cctv cameras put one front and back in the hope of catching the little shits doing it.

Unless that notice is going to jepordise your son's prospects in any way I would have good think about whether it's worth challenging it.

Guilty by association is shit but as your son does admit to being outside one of those properties at some point I can see why they have served it...even as a deterrent it makes sense to keep as many people as possible away from the cul de sac opposite you...I imagine other people living in that road have had a fucking shit time too.

Your priority is keeping yourself and the kids safe.
 

newbie

undisambiguated
But now after that eviction someone’s put the hedge across the street up (big fire, dripping from the phone wires, two fire trucks). And they’ve started on at my house again, in my back garden. Obviously I’m a single Mum and honestly I try and not let it show (to the kids or to these fucking pricks) but it scares me. They’re not all 14/15. Some of them are men in their 20s or even a lot older
that's getting too serious.
I've got an infra red camera that will send me an email including pictures every time the motion detection triggers. I've used it for hedgehogs in the garden and mice in the kitchen, but you have somewhat greater concerns.

I think what I've got (by Foscam, recommended) is obsolete but there's pages of similar on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dome-Cameras/b/ref=dp_bc_3?ie=UTF8&node=1330829031
 

JuanTwoThree

Spurius Bollox
I haven't become a lawyer in the meantime:

What tenancy agreement? If there isn't one the whole thing is a bluff, or a mistake.
 

Pickman's model

every man and every woman is a star
that's getting too serious.
I've got an infra red camera that will send me an email including pictures every time the motion detection triggers. I've used it for hedgehogs in the garden and mice in the kitchen, but you have somewhat greater concerns.

I think what I've got (by Foscam, recommended) is obsolete but there's pages of similar on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dome-Cameras/b/ref=dp_bc_3?ie=UTF8&node=1330829031
you can get tiny ones cheaply e.g. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07B8M89CX
 

Edie

Well-Known Member
Rutita1 its not really anything too bothering. It’s just annoying shit.
Example: in my back garden, hoods up, looking through my back windows, I go out and tell them to fuck off.
Example at night: banging on the door
Example: chucking their rubbish over my front gate
Example: pulling over my bins

It’s nothing I can’t handle. I only get scared when weapons become involved (knives, air guns), ignore the damage (although it’s fucking annoying), and feel bloody grateful it’s not my kids doing it.

The arson wasn’t aimed at me/us. It was the neighbour who’d been contacting the police about the dealing. Well, there were a group of neighbours who’d got pissed off and been helping the police, but he was one of the main ones. Good for them anyway.
 

Rutita1

Council Estate Socialist
Fair enough Edie , not saying you can't handle it although I still do think you should keep a record and think about monitoring who the fuck is doing it because my experience of situations like the one you describe is people get out of hand because they end up not knowing who they want to target and how much they should target someone in terms of revenge or just being grade A cunts.

Shit cunts that is. The ones that terrorise their neighbours for whatever reason. Fuck them.
 

Edie

Well-Known Member
Fair enough Edie , not saying you can't handle it although I still do think you should keep a record and think about monitoring who the fuck is doing it because my experience of situations like the one you describe is people get out of hand because they end up not knowing who they want to target and how much they should target someone in terms of revenge or just being grade A cunts.

Shit cunts that is. The ones that terrorise their neighbours for whatever reason. Fuck them.
The ones actually directly targeting me are kids. 15, 16, 14. I know them all, I know their mums. They don’t (much) scare me. The biggest of them (in all senses) is a kid whose been in and out of care and whose mum is an alcoholic with a serious anger issue who hates me. I’ve nowt to do with her. The other two Mums and me have a working relationship. They’re both single mums too and I know they’re doing their best and I guess I think ‘there but for the grace of God’ cos if this is shit for me imagine how utterly horrendous this must be for them.

A few weeks after my eldest fell out with them they got arrested at 3am for burglary. Sounds worse than what it was (they’d broken into an abandoned halls of residence and as they left picked up power tools). But they got done for it.

I spent the rest of the year literally thanking God I’d had my tyres done, it was seriously the best thing to happen in 2017 cos it *drew the line* under that shit for my eldest. He saw how shaken up I was, and there was no way he could go back to being mates with them.
 

marty21

One on one? You're crazy.
And had anyone actually been on the ground dealing with this they'd know who the dealers were and would target them. It's ridiculous how shit police etc are at dealing with these kind of scumbags, who unlike the wire etc pretty much just sit there on the doorstep blatantly selling drugs.
The closure orders I was involved were connected to the same dealer , his mo was to get friendly with a customer , hang out with them , they got some product , and gradually he's using their place as an office . One tenant admitted to me that it got out of control and he was glad we got the Closure Order . The same dealer targeted a woman of nearly 60 (who tbh was a serious crackhead ) I quite admire her in a way , still at it after 40 years in the game . She has been targeted in 4 different flats that I know of , we are still working with her (although she can be a bit elusive :hmm:) and trying to get her into supported accommodation.

I don't know why this particular dealer hasn't been caught and jailed but he is a clever fellah and doesn't get caught with the gear .
 

Edie

Well-Known Member
I think that’s exactly what went on over the street, some older dealer cunt using the flat of this kid. Then other kids hanging out there smoking weed, drinking and generally partying.

There was further bullshit last night. There was a car idling directly outside my house with a man sat in it. Older man, at least in his fourties. The scum grandson from next door went up to him at some point, then some kiddie kicking a ball (about 15) who I’d never seen before came and went a couple of times.

There was no drama really. But it still kept me awake, mainly cos it was hot so all the windows were open so the car engine kept me awake (seriously, hours he was there). And partly cos there were comings and goings til 1am and that shit makes me edgy.

I just want it to end :(
 

Edie

Well-Known Member
No way. Not worth it.

Benefit: some cop car drives past and he drives off.

Risk: the coppers say ‘a neighbour’ rung in, they know or think it’s me, shit happens.
 

cupid_stunt

Dyslexic King Cnut ... the Great.
As much as you clearly love your house, the shit happening around it is stressing you out, I think you need to consider moving away from that shit, life is too short.
 

Edie

Well-Known Member
As much as you clearly love your house, the shit happening around it is stressing you out, I think you need to consider moving away from that shit, life is too short.
It’ll pass. It’s literally only been as bad as this for less than a year. It was quiet for the previous nine years!
 

farmerbarleymow

Seagull + Chips = Happy Seagull
As much as you clearly love your house, the shit happening around it is stressing you out, I think you need to consider moving away from that shit, life is too short.
If this is an option Edie its worth considering - its awful living in situations like that, and damaging to your health. :(
 

Edie

Well-Known Member
It’s the little cunt in his early 20s next door, my neighbours grandson. I swear he’s bringing this shit on us. I just hope he gets nicked soon.
 

cupid_stunt

Dyslexic King Cnut ... the Great.
It’ll pass. It’s literally only been as bad as this for less than a year. It was quiet for the previous nine years!
Well, I hope it does pass, if it doesn't, at least you are in the position to make a move, unlike some that have no choice.
 

farmerbarleymow

Seagull + Chips = Happy Seagull
It’s the little cunt in his early 20s next door, my neighbours grandson. I swear he’s bringing this shit on us. I just hope he gets nicked soon.
I've lived next to cunts - and in my case it only resolved after he got sent to Strangeways. I was later told by the police that he was a member of a well-known crim family.
 

bellaozzydog

rolling turds in glitter
I did ask what evidence they had when the police come round. Apparently it’s a police photograph of my son and his two new mates (not the bad lads) stood outside the flat. From approx two months ago. I asked my son about this and he said yeah they did go over but didn’t go in.

This is all making me anxious cos when he fell out with the bad lads last October it got pretty nasty. They were threatening to stab him and I was trying to take him up to school all the days I don’t work. They then started chucking shit at my house (eggs, stones etc) which I done my best to ignore.

The final straw was when they did my tyres. I went out to drive to work and couldn’t. I then lost it and called the police and headteacher cos as far as I was concerned there was a kiddie with a knife out there and it scared me. The police went round their houses, and in retribution for that they shot my sons window with an air rifle and broke it and smashed my shed door in.

Throughout all this I’ve been keeping my cool and just telling myself thank bloody God it’s not my son involved, and none of us are hurt, but it’s cost me a lot of money. I’ve just told my son to stay away from them AND HE HAS.

But now after that eviction someone’s put the hedge across the street up (big fire, dripping from the phone wires, two fire trucks). And they’ve started on at my house again, in my back garden. Obviously I’m a single Mum and honestly I try and not let it show (to the kids or to these fucking pricks) but it scares me. They’re not all 14/15. Some of them are men in their 20s or even a lot older who I think have been dealing, I know cos my bedroom window overlooks it and I see them pulling up in expensive cars and the kids getting out iyswim.

So it really bloody grates that my son gets served this order when he’s just not involved with these people any more!
fucking hell, sounds like you need some prohibition notices dished out on your behalf
 
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