Predictions for May 3rd
- Thread starter mutley
- Start date
Das Uberdog said:
FFS DU, if you are going to talk on behalf of Respect will you wash your fucking mouth out and stop being such an obnoxious fucker!!
What does 'nancy' mean anyway? Sounds dangerously close to homophobia to me. I'm fed up with seeing that threads have turned into a big verbal abuse-fest, with you as ringleader.
Saying 'fuck' a lot is not big, not clever, not proletarian, not hard, not revolutionary, just shows you've got a poor grasp of the language. If you want to let off steam join a boxing club or something cos I'm fed up with being embarrassed by your obnoxious shite.
Right, I'm off to work then east Lozells and Handsworth, where Labour are kakking it as a result of a solid Respect campaign based around opposing a hospital ward closure. Should be some good press in the evening mail later today.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
I don't count them as part of the left. I know a lot of the trots do as part of their dimwitted "Anyone'll do! Anyone! Anyone at all! On any terms!" call of desperation, but I've got a bit more dignity (and principles) than them.MC5 said:
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
mutley said:
lol - jeez fella - it's nought to do with being hard. I've never been in a fight in my life - not planning on one either - and have no issue with telling you about it. Saying fuck alot is one of the things I actually do - may be nothing intrinsically 'proletarian' about it but I'm common in the language I use, unless I have to express something that demands more precision. That's just a mixture of laziness and upbringing. There's no use trying to diagnose me with your notions of my 'personality' or 'reasoning' about it, because there isn't any. That's part of the point.
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
articul8 said:
Galloway is a master of rhetoric. There are certainly some wards where I'd still vote Labour in Preston but that is out of the context of that speech (which was specifically given in context to the seats Respect were standing in at Michael's hustings).
Plus, you wouldn't prove much by getting Fishergate to admit he didn't agree with George Galloway on something. Nor many folk in the Party.
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
Das Uberdog said:
I think it's obvious he meant "Preston Town Centre Ward" - in that context, I'd agree with him.
I believe Galloway also has said in the past he supported the election of a muslim Labour MP in Glasgow, against the SSP, and in that context I would not agree with him. I shall be voting Labour in Preston myself tomorrow but that is because there is no choice (unfortunately the Greens are not standing in my ward ... but that's another story!).
Respect conference policy (2004) is clear by the way - the Labour Party is not the same as the Tories and Liberals, and we will work with elements of the Labour Party where we have agreement and even call for a vote for them.
Labour will get hammered (no surprise to predict). I see Labour doing classic send out the worse scenario -- say lose 600 and if they lose 500 - will say things not so bad.
I predict they will lose 600. SNP sneak to win but need other parties to control. Welsh Assembly - Labour get another kicking, Plaid Cymru gain but Labour still retain overall control.
Respect will win over 2 seats. BNP will not do as well as thought but will see a slight improvement.
I predict they will lose 600. SNP sneak to win but need other parties to control. Welsh Assembly - Labour get another kicking, Plaid Cymru gain but Labour still retain overall control.
Respect will win over 2 seats. BNP will not do as well as thought but will see a slight improvement.
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
If Welsh Labour knew what was good for them they'd ask Plaid to bail them out after the election.
rhys gethin
New Member
Zeppo said:
I don't think they quite have overall control even now, do they? One under, I thought. If you mean that they'll stay the largest party, anything else would be a political earthquake of no mean order. Here's hoping the Liberals don't do well enough to keep them in power, though. Agree with lewis - a Plaid/Labour coalition could really DO something.
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
rhys gethin said:
Too right, bring out the nationalist elements in Labour, end Blairism in Wales, deliver socialist policies, win a referendum for law-making powers for the assembly, and change the political landscape of the United Kingdom and any future government in Westminster.
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
rhys gethin said:
It sounds to me like business as usual - more of the same. Any idea that Plaid offer a fundamental alternative to New Labour is clarified by the ease with which they can work together.
The idea that "Welsh" New Labour offers an alternative path to New Labour fall down when you realise that Welsh Labour can do nothing to solve the problems of poverty and the effects of New Labour's neoliberal policies in Wales.
I guess the leader of Plaid shares Labour's pro-Nuclear agenda.
But Plaid are keeping their options open, they are quite happy to join up with the tories as long as IWJ gets to be First Minister.
Plaid Cymru's economic strategy for Wales is to give tax breaks to multinationals rather than taxing the rich till the pips squeak. Corporate globalisation is a race to the bottom and a search for the places where workers can be paid least with the least rights.
A Plaid government would pursue the very same economic polices that turned people off New Labour in the first place - a continuation of the low wage economy.
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
Udo Erasmus said:
At least we can actually win an election. Your vision of 'government' though admirably idealist, is not compatible with how things actually work. We have to work in coalitions if we want our ideas to be heard.
Also you misrepresent plaid's policy. Targeted tax breaks not on income tax but on corporation tax/start-up tax, in the most deprived areas of Wales only. Such a policy would transform these areas. If you'd ever visited them you'd know that in alot of Wales there is no work to be found and it absolutely cripples peoples lives.
It's quite clear that an economic boom in these deprived areas would in fact result in wages going up, not down.
Plaid is the only socialist alternative to Labour in Wales.
The problem with your Respect Party (and hey, you ARE in coalition with conservatives in your own membership!) is that it is suited to the conditions of multi-cultural, urban England. Respect has absolutely nothing to do with Wales (perhaps you could pick up some votes in Cardiff, Newport and Swansea, but even in the cities there is no chance of you ever winning anything), you do not have any Welsh national policies, no serious people making policy, no funds, no membership, just the usual SWP members.
You inhabit the priveleged world of fringe politics where you can spout about Plaid's failures freely, and criticise at will, because you will never have to work with other parties in government. It's fun at the level of student politics, but i'm in the real world now and have wider concerns.
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
Lewislewis doesn't realise how much he sounds like Peter Mandelson or Tony Blair lambasting old labour.
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
Lewislewis doesn't realise how much he sounds like Peter Mandelson or Tony Blair lambasting old labour and trade unions.
Plaid are nationalists not socialists. If there was any thing socialist about Plaid then they would been unable to form a coalition with the Tories.
Plaid's model is the Irish Celtic Tiger built on a low wage economy where the gap between rich and poor is growing
Plaid are nationalists not socialists. If there was any thing socialist about Plaid then they would been unable to form a coalition with the Tories.
Plaid's model is the Irish Celtic Tiger built on a low wage economy where the gap between rich and poor is growing
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
Udo Erasmus said:Lewislewis doesn't realise how much he sounds like Peter Mandelson or Tony Blair lambasting old labour and trade unions.
Plaid are nationalists not socialists. If there was any thing socialist about Plaid then they would been unable to form a coalition with the Tories.
Plaid's model is the Irish Celtic Tiger built on a low wage economy where the gap between rich and poor is growing
There is no coalition between Plaid and the Tories. Check up on your facts.
No, it would be ridiculous to have a model replicating the Celtic Tiger, we're in Wales not Ireland you fool.
There is nothing wrong with drawing inspiration from Ireland.
Umm where did I lambast Old Labour and trade unions? Quite rightly I lambasted TU leadership as largely they are lining their own pockets.
In case you didn't notice the gap between rich and poor is growing under Labour at the moment (at a faster rate than it is in Ireland might I add).
cockneyrebel
New Member
If you listen to the video he actually says any decent person shouldn't vote labour in preston or anywhere else.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
MC5 said:Who do you count as 'left' then, someone masked up with rich parents?
What do you count as left MC5? What's your own definition?
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
No.MC5 said:Who do you count as 'left' then, someone masked up with rich parents?
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
mutley said:
Hands off Das Uberdog!
cockneyrebel said:Das Uberdog why do you persist with all the insults? Would you use all these insults in real life in a debate. If so you must have a few bruises at the lease and probably a few scars from being glassed. Although this is a flippant comment there is some truth in it, you just wouldn't get away with the kind of abuse you throw out.
So why do it on here? All it does is make you and the SWP look idiotic. I know you say it's better than beating around the bush, but by that rate society might as well deteriorate into everyone beating the shit out of each other whenever there is a disagreement.
I know U75 is of no importance, but still, I just don't think you do yourself any favours. You obviously care passionately about the SWP and fair play that at times you seem quite open minded. But I think you'd do yourself a lot of favours if you took a bit of calmer approach. Apart from anything else it can't do your blood pressure any good
I have to say I agree with this. There were a bunch of arseholes on Urban who liked to take every 'debate' into the gutter of pointless abuse. I'm glad they left. That sort of thing puts people off joining in. A point is generally not well made, if it involves abuse. By all means level abuse at racists or the likes of Blair, but debate should be an attempt to convince others not abuse them.
I try to rise above such things.
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree, but this board is a little different from real life.
For example, in the real world of activism I actually work quite fruitfully with members of groups and organisations I mercilessly attack on here.
In real life, my main focus wouldn't be splitting hairs with other socialists who really agree with on 90% of things.
For example, in the real world of activism I actually work quite fruitfully with members of groups and organisations I mercilessly attack on here.
In real life, my main focus wouldn't be splitting hairs with other socialists who really agree with on 90% of things.
rhys gethin
New Member
Udo Erasmus said:
I don't think the world of activism and the world of electoral politics have a great deal of connection with one another nowadays. It is worth voting for Respect, Plaid Cymru, Scottish Socialist and perhaps Green as a way of slightly improving the chances of the other kind of politics and - at an absolute push - Liberal in the hope they'll change the voting system. None of this is hugely relevant to the class struggle, but it is possible to have other interests 'meanwhile' so to speak, like the future of our language or the modification of earth-frying. I think it is worthwhile - in areas where very little is otherwise going on - simply keeping some people interested in politics too. These are not exciting activities but probably - if you are living in the wrong place - just about worth taking part in.
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
torres said:
Today it would be an organisation that is to the left of the Labour party, with the ideas of socialism as it's core values. An organisation that believes in real progress, with people taking control of their own lives. An organisation that protects human rights and the environment. An organisation that believes in fair treatment of all and is against large corporate interests.
Tomorrow it would be an organisation calling for the complete overthrow of capitalism by the international working class.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Thnaks MC5. Is that your base line for being defined as left or your ideal organisation though. They're different things.
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