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Poxy Britain

And you see wilkos etc crippling ordinary hardware shops that sell decent stuff because they can get better premises, sell a wider range of stuff, use loss leaders, economies of scale etc. If there's a proper hardware store in all of Manchester city centre I can't find it. And I've looked, extensively. Dozens of shops were I could buy strappy high-heeled shoes that give people arthritis while not even keeping the rain off, nowhere you can buy a hammer.
 
QUOTE="blairsh, post: 14965512, member: 22866"]With you all the way til the end of this bit...[/QUOTE]
So, the first two words represent the totality of your agreement?
The imbedded implication in that is that you do not see any unusual level of provocation
Have you, perhaps, been cloistered for a bit?
In a remote cave up some obscure hill...
As a result you have absolutely no idea of whats going on in the rest of the "world"?
Good Luck luv, if you aint seen this before, the current world will be a firkin well harsh shock
 
hipipol said:
QUOTE="blairsh, post: 14965512, member: 22866"]With you all the way til the end of this bit...
Click to expand...
So, the first two words represent the totality of your agreement?
The imbedded implication in that is that you do not see any unusual level of provocation
Have you, perhaps, been cloistered for a bit?
In a remote cave up some obscure hill...
As a result you have absolutely no idea of whats going on in the rest of the "world"?
Good Luck luv, if you aint seen this before, the current world will be a firkin well harsh shock[/QUOTE]
Ha!
 
Actually, Spooky, the tool sector...and good hardware shops, are holding up surprisingly well since the people who buy the most tools generally know full well the value of buying good ones. True, most towns only really have a market for one (there are 4 in my town plus all the usual B&Q, Jewsons, Travis Perkins etc. My youngest works in a local family tool shop and engineering works which employs well over 30 people, many of whom have worked there for years...and they are not in any financial hardship whatsoever...and as a massive tool enthusiast myself, I really don't see this changing just yet...a bit like music shops in fact (specialists).

eta - people go out of their way to buy tools, not passing town centre trade, so even hideous business rates are not impacting as terribly as they might in other sectors.
 
campanula said:
Actually, Spooky, the tool sector...and good hardware shops, are holding up surprisingly well since the people who buy the most tools generally know full well the value of buying good ones. True, most towns only really have a market for one (there are 4 in my town plus all the usual B&Q, Jewsons, Travis Perkins etc. My youngest works in a local family tool shop and engineering works which employs well over 30 people, many of whom have worked there for years...and they are not in any financial hardship whatsoever...and as a massive tool enthusiast myself, I really don't see this changing just yet...a bit like music shops in fact (specialists).
Click to expand...

Tools and hardware are an interesting thing to look at when thinking about how capitalism works in general because marketing and product development are so much less of a factor in determining what people buy. Of course every screwfix catalogue you see has new stuff in it, and the very fact they keep sending you the damn things is proof that there's a marketing department somewhere, but ultimately people buy hammers when they need hammers. Most people won't buy more hammers than they need in order to gain prestige or for the sheer thrill of buying a new hammer, and the basic design of a ball pein hammer has been the same for a long time and isn't likely to change much. Anyone who can use a hammer at all can probably cope with replacing a broken handle rather than the entire hammer.

Your typical independent hardware shop doesn't do promotions or advertising, they just sit there safe in the knowledge that people will always need hammers, and people with hammers will always need nails. This is how we should assess the usefulness of everything our society produces, are there lots of people trying to convince us we need this thing, or did we figure out for ourselves that we needed it? If advertising didn't exist, if people weren't inventing products for which there is no demand and then manufacturing the demand for them after the fact, would this thing you're making or selling still have a place in the world? And would we need to make so many of them, or could we make fewer of them, but ones designed to last?

Capitalism doesn't allow these kinds of decisions to be made. There must always be new things. New things require the removal of old things, so the sooner the old things are old the better. Hence those deliberately shit and yet costly iphone chargers. Or iphones in general come to think of it. Tools are a refreshing antidote to all this because the value a decent tool increases with age, as its list of accomplishments gets longer and its owner's faith in it grows. Tools are good things to have because their value comes not from the fulfillment of a desire at the moment of their purchase, but the fulfillment of a purpose that comes from their actual use.
 
SpookyFrank said:
If there's a proper hardware store in all of Manchester city centre I can't find it. And I've looked, extensively.
Click to expand...

there used to be a very good one on the approach to Piccadilly Station - did a fair amount of army surplus kit (in the days when the MOD got decent tools which is probably a whole new argument) but it must have been at least 20 years ago that i got some stuff (still in the tool box) in their closing down sale

:(
 
SpookyFrank said:
Tools and hardware are an interesting thing to look at when thinking about how capitalism works in general because marketing and product development are so much less of a factor in determining what people buy. Of course every screwfix catalogue you see has new stuff in it, and the very fact they keep sending you the damn things is proof that there's a marketing department somewhere, but ultimately people buy hammers when they need hammers. Most people won't buy more hammers than they need in order to gain prestige or for the sheer thrill of buying a new hammer, and the basic design of a ball pein hammer has been the same for a long time and isn't likely to change much. Anyone who can use a hammer at all can probably cope with replacing a broken handle rather than the entire hammer.

Your typical independent hardware shop doesn't do promotions or advertising, they just sit there safe in the knowledge that people will always need hammers, and people with hammers will always need nails. This is how we should assess the usefulness of everything our society produces, are there lots of people trying to convince us we need this thing, or did we figure out for ourselves that we needed it? If advertising didn't exist, if people weren't inventing products for which there is no demand and then manufacturing the demand for them after the fact, would this thing you're making or selling still have a place in the world? And would we need to make so many of them, or could we make fewer of them, but ones designed to last?

Capitalism doesn't allow these kinds of decisions to be made. There must always be new things. New things require the removal of old things, so the sooner the old things are old the better. Hence those deliberately shit and yet costly iphone chargers. Or iphones in general come to think of it. Tools are a refreshing antidote to all this because the value a decent tool increases with age, as its list of accomplishments gets longer and its owner's faith in it grows. Tools are good things to have because their value comes not from the fulfillment of a desire at the moment of their purchase, but the fulfillment of a purpose that comes from their actual use.
Click to expand...
I've got a range of traditional hammering equipment and mechanical tools, all a bit vintage but U.K. made, but also a range State of the art battery powered gardening equipment, I would have preferred my garage/workshop/ shed to contain all uk made gear but unfortunately not possible, why?
 
campanula said:
and as a massive tool enthusiast myself
Click to expand...

121
 
Sheffield steel losses, amongst other things. I can heartily recommend Bulldog though.
I like a decent chainsaw as much as the next person but I admit, old hand tools, with that deep patina of hard use and potential, are more in my comfort zone (digging myself deeper, PuddyTat)
 
campanula said:
Actually, Spooky, the tool sector...and good hardware shops, are holding up surprisingly well since the people who buy the most tools generally know full well the value of buying good ones. True, most towns only really have a market for one (there are 4 in my town plus all the usual B&Q, Jewsons, Travis Perkins etc. My youngest works in a local family tool shop and engineering works which employs well over 30 people, many of whom have worked there for years...and they are not in any financial hardship whatsoever...and as a massive tool enthusiast myself, I really don't see this changing just yet...a bit like music shops in fact (specialists).

eta - people go out of their way to buy tools, not passing town centre trade, so even hideous business rates are not impacting as terribly as they might in other sectors.
Click to expand...

Battery powered chainsaw, ditto,hedge trimmer and heavy duty strimmer, fantastic bits of kit, Vax cordless Hoover. Magic bit of kit, ditto me battery powered window cleaner!!
All do what they say on the tin, all sourced and manufactured from Asia.
Why the FH can't I buy this kit manafactured in the UK!?
 
coley said:
Battery powered chainsaw, ditto,hedge trimmer and heavy duty strimmer, fantastic bits of kit, Vax cordless Hoover. Magic bit of kit, ditto me battery powered window cleaner!!
All do what they say on the tin, all sourced and manufactured from Asia.
Why the FH can't I buy this kit manafactured in the UK!?
Click to expand...

Because you won't work for £1.50 an hour. So it's your fault and I hope you're ashamed.
 
bimble said:
Where do you think people are happily buying all the quality screwdrivers then, where's the non poxy place you'd rather be .
Click to expand...

Ain't friggin screwfix, thons a certainty, everything they sell comes from various parts of Asia, now they certainly aren't alone in this area but they seem to 'promote' various brands as U.K./EU sourced.
Familiar brands which have, over the years have built up an expatiation of reliability, we all know who they are, have sold out and the consumer only realises this when the expensive drill bit melts upon touching any surface harder than putty.
 
Raheem said:
Because you won't work for £1.50 an hour. So it's your fault and I hope you're ashamed.
Click to expand...
Out of date argument, the tech involved is mostly automated processing , so,no I'm not, just annoyed that our younger generation is being sold the idea the best job opportunities are in the field of either serving swanky coffee or 'financial services'
ETA, we've been working forfmuch less than £1.50 an hour for many years, but that's a much different story:)
 
Last edited:
SpookyFrank said:
Tools and hardware are an interesting thing to look at when thinking about how capitalism works in general because marketing and product development are so much less of a factor in determining what people buy. Of course every screwfix catalogue you see has new stuff in it, and the very fact they keep sending you the damn things is proof that there's a marketing department somewhere, but ultimately people buy hammers when they need hammers. Most people won't buy more hammers than they need in order to gain prestige or for the sheer thrill of buying a new hammer, and the basic design of a ball pein hammer has been the same for a long time and isn't likely to change much. Anyone who can use a hammer at all can probably cope with replacing a broken handle rather than the entire hammer.

Your typical independent hardware shop doesn't do promotions or advertising, they just sit there safe in the knowledge that people will always need hammers, and people with hammers will always need nails. This is how we should assess the usefulness of everything our society produces, are there lots of people trying to convince us we need this thing, or did we figure out for ourselves that we needed it? If advertising didn't exist, if people weren't inventing products for which there is no demand and then manufacturing the demand for them after the fact, would this thing you're making or selling still have a place in the world? And would we need to make so many of them, or could we make fewer of them, but ones designed to last?

Capitalism doesn't allow these kinds of decisions to be made. There must always be new things. New things require the removal of old things, so the sooner the old things are old the better. Hence those deliberately shit and yet costly iphone chargers. Or iphones in general come to think of it. Tools are a refreshing antidote to all this because the value a decent tool increases with age, as its list of accomplishments gets longer and its owner's faith in it grows. Tools are good things to have because their value comes not from the fulfillment of a desire at the moment of their purchase, but the fulfillment of a purpose that comes from their actual use.
Click to expand...
 
SpookyFrank said:
And you see wilkos etc crippling ordinary hardware shops that sell decent stuff because they can get better premises, sell a wider range of stuff, use loss leaders, economies of scale etc. If there's a proper hardware store in all of Manchester city centre I can't find it. And I've looked, extensively. Dozens of shops were I could buy strappy high-heeled shoes that give people arthritis while not even keeping the rain off, nowhere you can buy a hammer.
Click to expand...

I've found Screwfix and Toolstation to be ok.
 
kabbes Law Number 1 of the universe: Everything gets shitter
kabbes Law Number 2 of the universe: Fortunately new things come along and they are sometimes good
kabbes Law Number 3 of the universe: Unfortunately, see Law 1 for what happens to the new things.
 
Henry hoovers used to cost about £110 and were decently built, simple and powerful (whilst your local civic amenity site was piled with broken Dysons). Now they're about £85 and the motors are shit and don't last.

Often venture capitalists and their Ilk buy out or buy into 'brands' with a good reputation, value engineer the fuck out of everything and rake in the cash for as long as that brand's reputation holds up. They'll also slap the name on loads of other products produced cheaply overseas to squeeze as much out of it as possible. See all the once reputable brands plastered on cheap and nasty shit in Sports Direct as an example.
 
kabbes said:
kabbes Law Number 1 of the universe: Everything gets shitter
kabbes Law Number 2 of the universe: Fortunately new things come along and they are sometimes good
kabbes Law Number 3 of the universe: Unfortunately, see Law 1 for what happens to the new things.
Click to expand...
Shitropy :(
 
Dogsauce It's not just venture capitalists, multinationals do it too. Not so long ago I was talking to someone who had a friend working at the Sony factory in Cardiff and they could tell me that part of the production process involves PCB's being subjected to an 'ageing' process whereby the have a current run through them that is slightly over the normal operating one. This ensures that your shiny new TV or whatever doesn't last more than about 5 years and then you have to buy more shiny new stuff.
 
teqniq said:
Dogsauce It's not just venture capitalists, multinationals do it too. Not so long ago I was talking to someone who had a friend working at the Sony factory in Cardiff and they could tell me that part of the production process involves PCB's being subjected to an 'ageing' process whereby the have a current run through them that is slightly over the normal operating one. This ensures that your shiny new TV or whatever doesn't last more than about 5 years and then you have to buy more shiny new stuff.
Click to expand...

That's not the reason they do that. It's to weed out the faulty units so as to minimise the number of returned products.
 
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