Pop Brixton (formerly Grow Brixton) Pope's Road development

Discussion in 'Brixton' started by editor, Mar 27, 2014.

  1. snowy_again

    snowy_again Slush

  2. T & P

    T & P |-o-| (-o-) |-o-|

    Well, I'm sold. Thanks for bringing this up :)
  3. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    That's a relief. That swishy plate would barely feed a sparrow.

    As seems to be the norm for many Pop Brixton ventures, they appear to have little, if any, connection with Brixton.
    £38 per head (excluding drinks and service). Ouch.
    Smoke & Salt
    Gramsci likes this.
  4. T & P

    T & P |-o-| (-o-) |-o-|

    If that is for a tasting menu, £38 per head is not unreasonable at all.
  5. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    For you I'm sure it's very affordable, but it won't be for an awful lot of people who live nearby. How do you think such an upmarket - and by definition, elitist - restaurant fits in with the original stated aims of Pop Brixton as some sort of community venture?
    Gramsci likes this.
  6. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    I don't quite understand this. Checked on Google.

    smoke & salt to open in pop brixton - London On The Inside

    I thought Pop prides itself on start up space for local entrepreneurs?

    Can't see how this fits in with that model.
    twistedAM, editor and wurlycurly like this.
  7. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Another thing that puts me of Pop is seeing the poor sods from Deliveroo and Uber Eats outside Pop.
    equationgirl, dbs1fan, editor and 2 others like this.
  8. T & P

    T & P |-o-| (-o-) |-o-|

    This is a temporary gig meant to offer an occasional treat for people who are into that kind of thing. Nobody is suggesting it should be viewed or used as a regular eat-out option, and more importantly there are plenty of other venues at Pop offering far cheaper options.

    This is not a permanent restaurant and is not replacing a cheaper eatery, so it does not amount to a loss to the local community. It will be a short lived gig amongst a sea of other venues offering cheaper alternatives. That is all.

    If your angle however is that anything that is out of reach of the poorest members of the local community is an affront to them and should be opposed, then I'm afraid we're going to have to get rid of pretty much every restaurant in the area- and pub and club venue while we're at it- because to the poorest members of the local community they will sadly be as hopelessly out of reach.
  9. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    If you are referring to smoke and salt it's not temporary.
    editor likes this.
  10. SpamMisery

    SpamMisery I bet you think this tagline's about you?

    I went into Pop very early on Saturday morning to pass the time whilst waiting for someone. I took a coffee in with me that I'd purchased outside and used their loo. Turns out it really is just like a public space with the added benefit of free public loos. Also, no bouncers.
  11. T & P

    T & P |-o-| (-o-) |-o-|

    Fair enough, didn't realise that. But unless I misunderstood the rest of it, it is an addition to the local offerings, as opposed to displacing a cheap restaurant. It causes no loss to the local community, and it is no more offensive than countless other businesses both inside and outside Pop that are just as out of each to the poorest people in the area. Its singling out as an objectionable business does not stand up to any scrutiny IMO.
  12. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Pop isn't the same as purely commercial enterprises such as Brixton Village. I don't understand why smoke and salt was given a unit when Pop was I thought for start ups.
    editor likes this.
  13. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    This "occasional treat" line is getting really fucking tired.
  14. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    So you think that an influx of expensive restaurants and bars causes no loss to the local community? Really? You think it's that simple?
  15. alex_

    alex_ Well-Known Member

    Surely it'll can't last longer than pop ?

    Which iirc has 2 years left ?

  16. T & P

    T & P |-o-| (-o-) |-o-|

    As does the 'poorest members of the local community can't afford that and therefore it's bad' argument, seeing as that sentiment is applied very selectively indeed.
    alex_ likes this.
  17. Monkeygrinder's Organ

    Monkeygrinder's Organ Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager

    I seriously doubt they'll be taking it down on time.
    Gramsci likes this.
  18. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    I'll ask again: do you really think that an influx of expensive restaurants and bars causes no loss to the local community, as you claimed? Brixton is now awash with these expensive bars and restaurants. They contribute to an increase in rents and push out locals, and when they're opening up in what was supposed to be a community based venture this "occasional treat" excuse starts to look desperately weak.
  19. CH1

    CH1 "Red Guard"(NLYL)

    The only useful use of a Boxpark type situation I've encountered recently is the Temporary Newington Library at Elephant Park. In a second floor container (but equipped with a lift). This of course is a meanwhile use pending the refurbishment of the fire damaged library on Walworth Road.

    I drew 2 lessons from this

    1. although Southwark Council are are evil and vile as Lambeth - and more - when it comes to housing and regeneration, they do at least maintain their libraries, and provide temporary facilities when the main ones are being renovated

    2. the temporary Newington Library has very nice staff - but don't even stock electoral registers in the middle of a general election. They sent me to the John Harvard library for that - who duly obliged.
    Gramsci likes this.
  20. T & P

    T & P |-o-| (-o-) |-o-|

    The arrival of this particular venture will cause no loss to the local community, however you want to spin it. It has displaced or replaced no other business, and it has a limited lifespan of no more than 3 years, or whenever Pop is due to close. So no, no negative effect whichever way you want to look at it.
  21. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    You seem to think all this is happening in some sort of bubble. It's not.

    It's yet another gentrifying elitist newcomer - with no connection to the area - taking over what should be a community resource. Of course it has an effect. A local start up could have used the space they're occupying for their expensive £38 meals for tourists (and that doesn't include service charge or drinks).
    inva and Gramsci like this.
  22. Lizzy Mac

    Lizzy Mac Well-Known Member

    This doesn't just effect the poorest members of the community. I don't count myself as poor, I've got a job, a mortgage etc etc but I can't afford to eat in many of these new places and I too am bored too by the occasional treat line. I rarely come on here and moan about it but it would be nice if a few of the new places were more budget friendly. Pizza is covered and a burger is a last resort for me.
    Gramsci, sealion and editor like this.
  23. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    Exactly. And when these unaffordable upmarket restaurants with no connection to the area are opening up in what is supposed to be a "community project for local independent businesses," it's a real slap in the face.
  24. T & P

    T & P |-o-| (-o-) |-o-|

    I'm on the same boat as you, and visiting such a place would be a once-a-year treat for me at best. But not being able to afford a certain place doesn't mean I should oppose one opening on a temporary basis, so long as it does not take away any of the existing cheaper places in the area- which this venture absolutely does not. So I don't have a problem with it.
  25. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    So you don't think the space they're occupying in this "community project for local independent businesses" should have, perhaps, gone to an actual local business that catered to the needs of the community?
  26. T & P

    T & P |-o-| (-o-) |-o-|

    There have been plenty of local businesses doing just that in Pop from its conception. If Pop has extra space and have now decided to utilise it, it is not a bad thing. If the issue bothers you that much perhaps you can write to them and ask if they have ensured they could not possibly rent it to a local business before letting it to an evil outsider.
  27. alex_

    alex_ Well-Known Member

    Have we actually clarified they aren't a local business ?
  28. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    Feel free to try and establish a connection with Brixton. If they have a connection, they're keeping it very quiet.

    All I could find was their achievements with big name restaurants including the Michelin-starred The Latymer in Surrey and Heston Blumenthal’s Dinner in Knightsbridge and at "two of Boston’s biggest names." They met working in Notting Hill and they certainly are very well connected with good PR. They've attracted a phenomenal amount of press.

    Here's another review complaining about their 'shocking' high prices.

    Fay Maschler reviews Smoke & Salt: Sweet service but shocking bill

    Gramsci likes this.
  29. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    It's not just a few posters here who don't like Pop. In Loughborough Junction the LJ Works project on the LJ Farm site has parralels with Pop. At early consultation on this project (Next to the Loughborough Estate) residents of the estate said they didn't want anything like Pop next to there estate. Since then officers have been careful to say they will learn from what happened with the Pop site. The residents saw what happened with the Pop project and don't like it. The "poor" when given an opportunity to express there opinion have made it clear to the Council what they think.

    The Council are fully aware that Pop has divided opinion. Though that doesn't make it into any of there documents. I hear it because of the circles I mix in and from attending the occasional consultation meeting.

    The Council see Pop as a success. It's very New Labour. In there view it's a successful experiment in putting together entrepreneural business with social value. They think it's a model they can role out on the rest of Brixton. I did point it this didn't work out with Network Rail. They believe they can sign up landowners/ big business to this.

    It's naive of Council to think they can do this. This is not how Capitalism works. It's about making money not producing social good.

    At consultation meetings residents have brought up concerns of the Pop model. These are ignored from what I've seen. Except in LJ. Which is mainly due to the Loughborough Estate being so big.
    Last edited: May 23, 2017
    equationgirl, wurlycurly and editor like this.
  30. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    I really sincerely hope they manage to avoid getting another entrepreneur-stuffed, "occasional treat"-dispensing, East London-developer-partnered, trendy and unaffordable "business park for the 21st century" on their doorsteps.
    equationgirl, wurlycurly and Gramsci like this.

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