Polluted city

Discussion in 'London and the South East' started by BigMoaner, Jul 5, 2016.

  1. fredfelt

    fredfelt Mostly unknown member

    The additional charge being applied to cars made before 2005 seems slightly arbitrary. I wonder if legislation resulted in cars being sold after this date having less harmful emissions?

    I guess any measure has to have some kind of threshold somewhere.
     
  2. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    The EuroIV emissions standard became mandatory in 2005, although cars complied with it beforehand so bit unfair if you have one of those.
     
  3. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    Actually I checked the detail and the criteria is Euro IV itself, not 2005 per se. So if you did have an earlier compliant car you're fine.
     
    Mr Smin likes this.
  4. fredfelt

    fredfelt Mostly unknown member

    Ah, that explains it. Thanks.

    If it's 'fair' or not has to be weighed up against the enormous social cost of air pollution. I don't think it's too much to ask for people to take some responsibility for their own actions - even if that involves buying a less polluting car or paying a small charge.
     
    Greebo likes this.
  5. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    Yeah, although it's a regressive tax in many ways as it most affects those who can't afford to upgrade. Possibly questionable in this case as to how many need & can afford a car in London anyway, especially after the original charge.

    OTOH at least congestion charging is usage-related, unlike say VED which is based on emissions but is a flat rate regardless or whether you actually drive anywhere or not. And is based on an increasingly useless metric of CO2 rather than a state of compliance.
     
  6. fredfelt

    fredfelt Mostly unknown member

    If you look at the issue by income I think the far bigger concern should be the way that those of lower incomes are the most affected by pollution. Also lower earners are less likely to have cars, and when they do they drive fewer miles.

    That said, if there were a way where you could practically means test an emissions charge I'd probably be supportive of it.
     
  7. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    Mostly agreed, although low income may correlate with high mileage in many areas (not necessarily London) as people can't afford to live conveniently close to work.

    The transition needs to happen but ideally there should be assistance available. The scrappage scheme was a form of this except if you have an old banger to trade in, then you probably don't have the rest of the £7k or whatever it is that the cheapest new car costs.

    Did you see that London is banning new diesel taxis from I think 2018? That is, you won't be able to license a diesel vehicle for the first time past that point. There are also incentives to surrender old diesel licences. That should make a fair difference.

    New diesel taxis banned in London from 2018 - The Transport Network
     
    plurker likes this.
  8. Winot

    Winot I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint

    sealion likes this.
  9. BigMoaner

    BigMoaner Don't kill the lion

    read a good study by the australian government. N02 and particle matter reduces dramatically to almost normal levels just 10 meters from a busy road. replicated by many studies, local to them and internationally.
     
    Greebo likes this.
  10. BigMoaner

    BigMoaner Don't kill the lion

    i was getting worried tbh. if i peer out my window i can see about 70 meteres away what can only be described as dual carriageway, though it is just a normal residential road, with cars going past every 2 seconds ALL day. i was worried about the effect of sitting in my garden mainly, and the kids. but there's nuff buildings blocking the road and the gardens are thick with lovely greenery and loads of trees. i think if you live/work in traffic affected areas, you just have to stay out of it for as long as possible. becuase as greebo has said, them PMs sound evil.
     
    Greebo likes this.
  11. D'wards

    D'wards I'm an excellent driver

    I walk home through a thin one way street that a lot of black cabs use - if i'm on right side of road and a cab goes past you always get a whiff of sooty diesel fumes, that you rarely get with other vehicles. The exhaust pipes are designed to spit it into the middle of the road.

    My point is, i reckon the black cabs are a big culprit - Uber all the way...
     
  12. BigMoaner

    BigMoaner Don't kill the lion

    government should do massive ad campaign about using a car.

    along the lines of do you REALLY need to drive it today?

    some people are just not conscious of it, or they just haven't considered it. not that they are anti-social, just not thought it through. a campaign may give some people pause and change their behaviour.

    but the real way of beating it is through technology improving cars, fuel, and phasing out of desil. i think it's not a hopeless situation. they've already massive progress in many regards.
     
    Greebo likes this.
  13. Sea Star

    Sea Star this place is too unfriendly for me

    I did that once too. Never again!

    I feel it heavy on my chest on high pollution days - but probably because I'm an asthma sufferer. When I was younger and before i developed an asthma condtion I never really noticed the pollution either - but it's likely it was still having a cumulative effect on my health regardless.
     
    Greebo likes this.
  14. StoneRoad

    StoneRoad heckling from the back!

    Once they get buses and locomotives up to scratch ie compliant with pollution reduction measures, then there should be massive investment in public transport and equally massive encouragement for people to use it, as well as more environmentally friendly commuting methods ...
     
    Greebo likes this.
  15. sealion

    sealion Well-Known Member

    Plenty of uber cars are diesel.
     
    Greebo likes this.
  16. BigMoaner

    BigMoaner Don't kill the lion

    i'm moving onto the skeptics now, throwing up some interesting stuff. a lot of people who are fighting the problem have done studies that have proven nothing other than the state of teh streets in places like london are actually almost harmless, with very few people dying directly from air pollution.

    A French lung specialist, Professor Jean-Philippe Derenne, said: “In 50 years I have never come across anyone who died from air pollution. Between those people who smoke two packets of cigarettes a day and those people who walk in the streets of Paris, there is not the beginnings of a comparison.”

    meanwhile mumsnet poll reveals it is london parents greatest fear.

    i do love these scientific debates, each side contradicting the other.
     
  17. bi0boy

    bi0boy Power User

    Do you know of anyone who has died from the greenhouse effect?
     
    mauvais likes this.
  18. fredfelt

    fredfelt Mostly unknown member

    I have a scientist friend who studies and researces public health issues for a living.

    She has told me that if you take the UK population as a whole it's estimated that the effects of air pollution, on average, cuts a year from your life.
     
    BigMoaner and Greebo like this.
  19. Winot

    Winot I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint

    Can I go for 1986?
     
    sealion and Bahnhof Strasse like this.
  20. DotCommunist

    DotCommunist slowtime

    klinneract or no klinneract, fact is you come back from London and settle in for a good pick and those bogies are black, rather than a healthy green. Also the security levels stress you to fuck. Psychic pollution on account of too much babylon
     
    Enviro and Greebo like this.
  21. Have stopped commuting in to London for 2 months, on the couple of days I've been in the shite air has hit me hard. Never noticed it when coming in every day, but now it's really bad.

    Anecdotal that. But a worry all the same.
     
    sealion and Greebo like this.
  22. And don't rely on Kahn, just look at his fucking motor!

    [​IMG]
     
    mauvais and BigMoaner like this.
  23. DotCommunist

    DotCommunist slowtime

    sick rims mind
     
    plurker and BigMoaner like this.
  24. Mayor of London inn'it, gotta look da bomb when cruisin'
     
  25. BigMoaner

    BigMoaner Don't kill the lion

    Iz gonna get me some sick air pollution strategy, cuz.
     
    sealion likes this.
  26. BigMoaner

    BigMoaner Don't kill the lion

    Fuck the particle matters!
     

  27. Yep
     
    BigMoaner likes this.
  28. hash tag

    hash tag never too old

  29. bi0boy

    bi0boy Power User

  30. hash tag

    hash tag never too old

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