Poll Tax riots - 15 years on

[Donna Ferentes]

Welling was pretty rough; a lot of cracked skulls and false arrests. (ANL/Unity demo against the BNP)

Yes, I remember that one very well. Loads of people, including myself, escaped by climbing over some railings into a park. So many, in fact, that the railings buckled under the weight. Next day it was reported that it had been damaged by protestors....

 

[Groucho]

no, it was just the unity demo against the bnp. there was a livingstone-sponsored demo of about 5,000 against the bnp in ctl london the same day. strangely, at welling the speeches all happened before the demo.

and someone got that swappie woman on the back of the head.

You mean Julie Waterson who was chief steward of the march and ANL convenor. The then editor of New Statesman had his finger broken by the police, and Holocaust survivor Leon Greenman got shuvved.

As Bernie Grant (who was on the ANL steering committee) said while we marched against the BNP HQ in our tens of thousands, ARA went to see the pigeons in Trafalgar Square. It was Livingstone and the TUC's sponsorship of the rival demo that allowed the police to demonise those attending the demo at Wapping.

 

[Groucho]

Yes, I remember that one very well. Loads of people, including myself, escaped by climbing over some railings into a park. So many, in fact, that the railings buckled under the weight. Next day it was reported that it had been damaged by protestors....

Wasn't that park a cemetory? I remember the silhouetted forms of police cavalry on the hill, and riot police with shields and batons running between headstones, but this I saw froma distance.

The trigger of that riot was that the police blocked both the route the march intended going down and the route the police insisted we should go down! Police had refused to agree or discuss the route with organisers until the last minute when they imposed a route away from the BNP HQ which they then blocked on the day leaving the march no-where to go, since backwards was blocked by the rest of the 60,000 or so protesters.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Wasn't that park a cemetery?

Yeah, could have been. I remember climbing over the railings rather better than I remember anything else.

 

[Belushi]

Some twats on that demo decided to fight fascism by smashing up my mates garden

 

[Pickman's model]

Wasn't that park a cemetory? I remember the silhouetted forms of police cavalry on the hill, and riot police with shields and batons running between headstones, but this I saw froma distance.

The trigger of that riot was that the police blocked both the route the march intended going down and the route the police insisted we should go down! Police had refused to agree or discuss the route with organisers until the last minute when they imposed a route away from the BNP HQ which they then blocked on the day leaving the march no-where to go, since backwards was blocked by the rest of the 60,000 or so protesters.

er...

the trigger of the riot was when the police decided a few days before that the march would not go past the bnp hq. it was fairly obvious to anyone with eyes to see that it would kick off then. and it was on the local news, so it's not as though people didn't hear about it, from mates if not the telly.

yeh, on the day the filth blocked both routes, which didn't help matters, but if you didn't know prior to the day that it would kick off, then the riot cops everywhere on the day should have given it away.

and that cemetery wall was fucking crumbly!

 

[Groucho]

er...

the trigger of the riot was when the police decided a few days before that the march would not go past the bnp hq. it was fairly obvious to anyone with eyes to see that it would kick off then. and it was on the local news, so it's not as though people didn't hear about it, from mates if not the telly.

yeh, on the day the filth blocked both routes, which didn't help matters, but if you didn't know prior to the day that it would kick off, then the riot cops everywhere on the day should have given it away.

and that cemetery wall was fucking crumbly!

Well, yes it is true that the police announced to the media days before the demo that there would be trouble. Police 'intelligence' (don't!) were aware of a group of organised troublemakers intent on causing mayhem. Er...they didn't know who they were or owt else.....

 

[Pickman's model]

Well, yes it is true that the police announced to the media days before the demo that there would be trouble. Police 'intelligence' (don't!) were aware of a group of organised troublemakers intent on causing mayhem. Er...they didn't know who they were or owt else.....

a previous demonstration which had passed the bnp hq had ended in violence, so it wouldn't take a genius to suggest the same result if tens of thousands of angry people walked past it.

but changing the route of the march arbitrarily made it fucking certain - also the way that they treated the holocaust survivors at the front of the march.

 

[tollbar]

I remember the police and activists lined up on a hill and coloured smoke canisters flying about. The Cemetary wall was down by the time I got to that bit. I also remember marching with Billy Bragg for a while who was helping carry the big unity banner. I still have a photo of him there somewhere in the house, now the cunts supporting Oona King, Oh well.

 

[Sid]

Result

With hindsight, and a fractured skull, I can only say I am amazed no one was killed. 100 000 rioters v 30 000 police going at it hammer an tong and no one ended up dead.

 

[Pickman's model]

With hindsight, and a fractured skull, I can only say I am amazed no one was killed. 100 000 rioters v 30 000 police going at it hammer an tong and no one ended up dead.

3,000 police. 376 injured cops, iirc.

there's a hilarious bit in hansard, where there was a statement on the ptr fifteen years ago today. i'll see if it's on the internet...

 

[Sid]

Running not counting

There seemed like a hell of a lot more coppers than 3000!!!!

 

[Pickman's model]

when they had a statement on the ptr in the lords, one of the peers asked if those responsible for the violence could be transported!

 

[Sid]

Still waiting

Of course one of the great memories is Tommy Sheridan going on TV that night and saying he was going to "Name, names." as to who was responsible for all the violence. We are still waiting Tommy....you f**king grass.

Also the most effective anti-poll tax group were Bournemouth who actually won the key case at the European Court and were not even members of the Anti Poll Tax Federation.

 

[Pickman's model]

what key case was that?

 

[Divisive Cotton]

when they had a statement on the ptr in the lords, one of the peers asked if those responsible for the violence could be transported!

Post that up if you can find it!

 

[Divisive Cotton]

Another aspect of the poll tax riots was that the next day, Sunday, Strangeways prison went up in smoke and then dozens of over prisons afterwards. Surely more than a coincidence...
Funny enough, I was talking to a south London-based activist some time ago, and being involved in the anti-poll tax campaign he said that the only union that actually coughed up any money was the Prison Officers Association.

I've done my own little tribute to Strangeways http://www.strangeways.marginreleased.net/

 

[Pickman's model]

Post that up if you can find it!

hansard on the internet only goes back to 1994.

but i'll go to the library on monday and copy it out.

 

[tollbar]

Of course one of the great memories is Tommy Sheridan going on TV that night and saying he was going to "Name, names." as to who was responsible for all the violence. We are still waiting Tommy....you f**king grass.




now he wants mandatory sentences for carrying a knife, logical progression I suppose.

 

[Sid]

Wow

Finally found something Pickman did not know! Bournemouth took the case to the european court of human rights and won £20 000 compensation for the imprisonment of a Poll Tax debtor. Bournemouth magistrates were really bad they literally had 40 people in the dock and the magistrate asking people to put their hands up. Mind you the clerk of the court at Bournmouth wrote the Magistrates handbook so hardly surprising. Another case run by two (Green Party?) people from Hackney, again non-federation, got the non-admission-of-computer-evidence-thing through at about the same time.

 

[Pickman's model]

it was a lady from camden stop the poll tax who did the computer evidence bit.

she was later run over by a lorry and killed.

 

[Main Street]

i was at barnet magistrates' the first day of the non-payment cases there, and that tout nally was there too (though i was young and innocent so i didn't have the go at him i would do if the same thing happened again ).

there were a lot of people turned up, as i recall, and an old lady got hold of the millie megaphone and put them all to shame with her rant!

I went to Hendon Court House mores the pity.

 

[catch]

I was 9 when it happened.

 

[Chuck Wilson]

Came down from Manchester on a coach and got caught up in a running battle with the riot police and missed the coach home. Then tried to get across to Euston and there were still battles going on until Tottenham Court Road. Bunked the train and got in to Manchester past midnite, had to walk from Piccadilly to Withington ( about five miles) because I didn't have enough for the cab and when I got to the house I was locked out cos I had left the house keys in my jacket on the coach. Climbed on to the front window ledge to get on to the little roof bit over the front room and was trying to stretch my hand through the top bedroom window to open the main bedroom window when a police car skidded to a halt, police rushed out and told me to get off the roof . I didn't have any ID , no keys, smelt of beer and my wife and son was staying at a friends whose number I couldn't remember. Thank heavens the back up police van, flashing lights and their radios caused the neighbours to come out who vouched for me and I ended up being allowed to break into my own house.

A very long day.

 

[Tom A]

I was 9 when it happened.

I was 6 years and 9 months old at the time. At the time I was wondering what all the "pay no poll tax" graffiti was all about, it was one of my first vivid memories of protest, although I didn't really know why until a few years later.

 

[LLETSA]

With hindsight, and a fractured skull, I can only say I am amazed no one was killed. 100 000 rioters v 30 000 police going at it hammer an tong and no one ended up dead.

100,000 didn't riot.

 

[Sid]

Ok true, but......

1. Yes it was the woman killed by the lorry on the bike who kicked off one of the cases, but after she did it with a couple of people from hackney who are still alive. Between them they McKenzie friended over a thousand cases in magistrates courts all over the UK before they got leave to appeal.

2. 100 000 did not riot, at the same time, but neither did they bugger-off allowing those who did want to have ago to do so. Still no one died which I still finding a warming and positive example of socialised hooliganism and responsible policing. Would a dead copper or protestor furthered the cause of anyone? Still seemed to be alot more than 3000 coppers on duty that day.

3. The biggest failure of the Federation or anyone else, from a "revolutionary perspective", was not to come back a second day and do it all again. Everyone was too disorganised, politically immature and freaked out by what had happened or, mildly concussed, to turn up for another go. Given the state of the Federation it would have been an utter balls-up anyway!

4. The Poll Tax riot got rid of Maggie not Parliamentary Democracy. Like the dinosaurs they are, the machinery of state and tory party took six months to wake up to the political reality everyone else had grasped and kick her out of office.

5. Cherie Blair was personally involved in prosecuting Poll Tax debtors and advising local government officers on how to successfully prosecute Poll-Tax debtors despite the official Labour Party policy being non-co-operation with the implimentation the Poll Tax. Nice work if you can get it Cherie!

 

[Belushi]

Cherie Blair was personally involved in prosecuting Poll Tax debtors and advising local government officers on how to successfully prosecute Poll-Tax debtors despite the official Labour Party policy being non-co-operation with the implimentation the Poll Tax. Nice work if you can get it Cherie!

I never knew that, but it doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

 

[LLETSA]

The Poll Tax riot got rid of Maggie not Parliamentary Democracy. Like the dinosaurs they are, the machinery of state and tory party took six months to wake up to the political reality everyone else had grasped and kick her out of office.

Did this new reality embrace those who re-elected the Tories less than two years later?

 

[Sid]

Missing electors

With tens of thousands disappearing off electoral registers to avoid poll tax hardly surprising that they did not register to vote out tories two years later!!!

Doh!