Politipiggle (or the state of perception)
- Thread starter samceeh
- Start date
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
You could host the PDF somewhere and post a link. I'm not working today, so I might even look at it.
Orang Utan
Maybe I like the misery
From what i can see, you're in no danger of having a roundabout named after you.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
That is such a narrow view of politics that it is little wonder you aren't engaged; there's nothing to get your teeth into. It does however go some way in explaining your desire to get to the people behind the politics; if you think that politics is limited to what MPs and members of the house of lords do then you've left yourself nowhere else to go but to the individuals involved.
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
samceeh
New Member
and you don't think that's a worthwhile avenue of expression? But thank you for your comment, it's an interesting thought. Maybe that is where I got the original inspiration from.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
Define "worthwhile", with reference to for whom.
samceeh
New Member
Sorry, I can't really do much from here. But I will be changing the pricing on Amazon as soon as I can- I had it on a lengthy free promotion before, but it's run out. And i think it's the way to go in any case.
But I'll definitely see about loading a pdf link up as soon as I can.
samceeh
New Member
for anybody who is interested! I did it for myself, not with a specific group in mind. Everybody and anybody who cares to read it, I suppose
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
OK.
But are you saying that it would be impossible for you to explain what point you were trying to make in the piece Lo Siento. asked about without us seeing the PDF?
Surely your thread is therefore redundant without the PDF?
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
Louis MacNeice asked "if you think that politics is limited to what MPs and members of the house of lords do then you've left yourself nowhere else to go but to the individuals involved". You replied "you don't think that's a worthwhile avenue of expression?"for anybody who is interested! I did it for myself, not with a specific group in mind. Everybody and anybody who cares to read it, I suppose
I asked you to define "worthwhile", you haven't. But you have said for whom: "anybody who is interested".
So, two questions:
1. Is the avenue of expression* worthwhile to anyone who isn't interested?
2. What do you mean by worthwhile?
*looking at the individuals involved in the institutions of parliamentary democracy, as opposed to their supposed function and supposed policies.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
I wouldn't make any judgement about the worth of the work as artistic expression; that would involve a whole other discussion about criteria for recognising and valuing art. Indeed if your criteria is the need for self expression, then as you have stated the pleasure you get in making them means that they have already proved their worth.
As a means of getting people to rethink their connection to/distance from politics, I think they have little merit because they are:
- far too limited in what they allow/encourage the viewer to think of as political;
- singularly un-thought provoking with regard to either the style of the image or the substance of the text.
samceeh
New Member
I can certainly try, but it's difficult for me to post responses longer than a paragraph or so on the fly like this! I feel as if I'm maybe talking to something of a hostile crowd. The inbox would certainly point that way! Not trying to rile any of you up, but I can delete this if you like. I am still grateful for the engagement.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
That's a new one - PMs of opposition!
samceeh
New Member
no, just messages along the lines of "it's shit your shit" type criticisms. I just wanted people to read some of my work, not get abused.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
You said: "Let me know what you think!" It's a dangerous opening gambit if you don't know the audience.
Do you want to know what I think of your work, or not? (I haven't told you yet, btw. I was trying to get out of you what you intended to achieve first).
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
I can readily appreciate why you don't want to be drawn on this question. Pretty much whatever you say will undermine your 'apathetic' posturing. Why not come clean and tell us what you really believe?
samceeh
New Member
no, that's okay. I think I've had enough. Never done anything like this before (made something or tried to drum up interest/discussion about it!). I wasn't really prepared for the hostility though. I mean, the criticisms on this post are one thing, but the messages are actually a little unsettling. Clearly this isn't my intended audience, so I'm going to bow out with as much grace as I can muster and try somewhere else.
Don't want to leave without answering your Q though. I'll try my best not to just paraphrase what I've already said. A: As you can see, I'm not engaged with politics. I find the tub-thumping off-putting and mercenary, even. Political discussion isn't about truth or reality because most people have no idea about how the government works. It's about what sounds good, overlaid with what looks good. I wanted to show people with little real knowledge of governance what these establishment figures are really about at the centre of all the circus. People with little interest in who wins, other than a vague feeling one way or the other. The press and the attempts to spin from the political establishment have taken the focus away from policies (hence websites like voteforpolicies) and turned politicians into characters we mock simply for looking funny. My work, as a whole, is meant to tap into that. I felt like it was something that hadn't really been done before.
Am I a little closer? Hope so.
Thanks for the chat.
Don't want to leave without answering your Q though. I'll try my best not to just paraphrase what I've already said. A: As you can see, I'm not engaged with politics. I find the tub-thumping off-putting and mercenary, even. Political discussion isn't about truth or reality because most people have no idea about how the government works. It's about what sounds good, overlaid with what looks good. I wanted to show people with little real knowledge of governance what these establishment figures are really about at the centre of all the circus. People with little interest in who wins, other than a vague feeling one way or the other. The press and the attempts to spin from the political establishment have taken the focus away from policies (hence websites like voteforpolicies) and turned politicians into characters we mock simply for looking funny. My work, as a whole, is meant to tap into that. I felt like it was something that hadn't really been done before.
Am I a little closer? Hope so.
Thanks for the chat.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
There weren't really any messages were there sam?
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
You're confusing politics with party politics.
What "tub-thumping"? Who is doing it, what is it? Why do you find it off-putting? Why do you find it mercenary?
These are questions, btw, not insults. You use a term - tub thumping, but you don't show us an activity that this describes. It is a term without context or meaning, unless you provide the context and meaning.
You never know, I might agree. But how can I agree with a disembodied phrase?
I think you'll find most people know exactly how the government works, at least in the important respects: the job of government is to protect the interests of those with power and fortune. Ask anyone.
What is?
I don't think your drawings achieve this.
You need to sort out your syntax. With which part of your previous sentence does that initial "people" agree? Are those the "establishment figures" you're now describing, or the "people with little real knowledge of governance"?
You're very confused here. The reason for voteforpolicies is that there is no real difference between the parties. Chomsky described the situation in the US. It applies here, too.
"In the US, there is basically one party - the business party. It has two factions, called Democrats and Republicans, which are somewhat different but carry out variations on the same policies. By and large, I am opposed to those policies. As is most of the population".
The important part of that is the last bit: "as is the rest of the population".
That's what voteforpolicies is for - to create the impression of choice.
It was unsuccessful, then.
It has. Well, not the tracing, but the tapping into the shallowness of party politics.
To what?
You're welcome. Good luck with the future. But try for a bit more depth next time.
In future, try to:
- Provide a comprehensive and accurate response to the question, demonstrating a breadth and depth of reading and understanding of relevant arguments and issues.
- Show a sophisticated ability to outline, analyse and contrast complex competing positions and to evaluate their strengths and weaknesses effectively.
- Develop a sophisticated argument, demonstrating logical reasoning and the effective use of well selected examples and evidence.
- Demonstrate depth of insight into theoretical issues.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
most of them, yeah! I'm trying to make a statement about them just being outlines.
If you have to explain it, you've failed.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
to try his hand at entryism with PD
Nancy_Winks
Well-Known Member
Go and ask the E15 mums if they're apathetic. Go and speak to pretty much any front line worker in the NHS and check they don't care one way or another. Are you sure people don't give a shit that they can't buy a home, or are on a zero hour contract, or are unemployed?
Apathetic? samceeh the fact that you and your mates don't vote has absolutely fuck all bearing on anything.
Apathetic? samceeh the fact that you and your mates don't vote has absolutely fuck all bearing on anything.
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Nancy_Winks
Well-Known Member
You are right when you say you're not engaged with politics mind you
Nylock
I hate 'these days'...
Did you actually read any thread in this forum before putting up the OP? If you haven't then, if nothing else, you can take that lesson away with you as you flounce off into the sunset in your search for a politically apathetic echo-chamber. If you had read through this forum first before posting then it looks like you have spectacularly misconstrued how your post would go down. To cap it off, the poll was AWFUL; no real choices at all due to the qualifying statements for each. IF you're going to ask a question expecting a binary yes/no response then at least afford the respondent the respectful gesture of not qualifying each option with some ridiculous and off-putting position statements. I had a look at your site and i can't say i'm all that impressed either....
for anybody who is interested! I did it for myself, not with a specific group in mind. Everybody and anybody who cares to read it, I suppose
This rather sound like you've done an art project. I think if you're creating something which you hope someone might actually get something out of then you'd do well to consider your target audience a little more.
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