Politics For Beginners

[ericjarvis]

I'd say that as soon as you decide you are taking an interest in politics everything becomes potentially political. Politics is simply how groups of people make decisions. Every decision made by a group involves at least some level of politics. In my opinion it's better to start by understanding politics in terms of how people operate before trying to learn about what is normally described as politics. This is because, as has been rightly pointed out elsethread, in politics there is no such thing as unbiased. So first learn about what mind games people are trying to play with you. Then learn the rest with at least some ability to sift the facts from the propaganda.

However this is a post about politics, and thus I'm biased, therefore you should treat the contents of this post with extreme caution.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Although exploitation is the rule, it neednt neccessarily be. It surely depends on the terms and conditions. If a person can get as much use value out of the money they make from Labour X as Labour X might be assumed to be "worth" (an impossible calculation maybe but one determined by markets and authorities through history, as well as guesswork) it is hard for me to see any exploitation in that direct exchange relationship. Doesnt the possiblility of ethical business exist?
But then I havent actually read Capital (loses 5 points) and am happy to be argued wrong. Exploitation of the environment may be another matter of course.

 

[Blagsta]

Although exploitation is the rule, it neednt neccessarily be. It surely depends on the terms and conditions. If a person can get as much use value out of the money they make from Labour X as Labour X might be assumed to be "worth" (an impossible calculation maybe but one determined by markets and authorities through history, as well as guesswork) it is hard for me to see any exploitation in that direct exchange relationship. Doesnt the possiblility of ethical business exist?
But then I havent actually read Capital (loses 5 points) and am happy to be argued wrong. Exploitation of the environment may be another matter of course.

Private property is the problem. Being familiar with the argument in Capital is worthwhile.

 

[Dillinger4]

Although exploitation is the rule, it neednt neccessarily be. It surely depends on the terms and conditions. If a person can get as much use value out of the money they make from Labour X as Labour X might be assumed to be "worth" (an impossible calculation maybe but one determined by markets and authorities through history, as well as guesswork) it is hard for me to see any exploitation in that direct exchange relationship. Doesnt the possiblility of ethical business exist?
But then I havent actually read Capital (loses 5 points) and am happy to be argued wrong. Exploitation of the environment may be another matter of course.

Exploitation is the rule, in a capitalist society.

 

[butchersapron]

Although exploitation is the rule, it neednt neccessarily be. It surely depends on the terms and conditions. If a person can get as much use value out of the money they make from Labour X as Labour X might be assumed to be "worth" (an impossible calculation maybe but one determined by markets and authorities through history, as well as guesswork) it is hard for me to see any exploitation in that direct exchange relationship. Doesnt the possiblility of ethical business exist?
But then I havent actually read Capital (loses 5 points) and am happy to be argued wrong. Exploitation of the environment may be another matter of course.

Terms and conditons have nothing whatsoever to do with it. They don't even enter into the deal.

 

[Dillinger4]

Capitalism would be OK, if only it were nicer.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Terms and conditons have nothing whatsoever to do with it. They don't even enter into the deal.

They are part of what makes up the labour relationship, though wages probably predominate. Such a relationship need not be exploitative in theory, though I accept that capitalism makes it somewhat inevitable.

I basically agree with Blagsta that private property is a big part of the problem but convincing enough other people of that is a really uphill task.

 

[butchersapron]

The labour relationship is made of people owning the social means of production and others having no choice but to sell their labour-power to those people. That the labour relationship. That's it. Relatiobnship is the word key word here. Changing the terms of that relationship (as better/worseT&Cs does) does not change the relationship.

 

[Azrael]

Are there any sites to recommend for someone interested in learning about politics? Non-biased is essential.

Non-biased is impossible, for the reasons already given, but A. V. Dicey's An Introduction to the Study of the Law of the Constitution is a classic of British constitutional theory. Obviously a link to dip into, but much good stuff in there.

 

[treelover]

[/QUOTE]nonbiased is impossible - all accounts of political ideas, even (or especially) "apolitical" ones speak from a certain position

Yes, there's the old saw that LP canvassers used to hear, 'Oh no, I'm non political, my family have always voted Conservative'

 

[Azrael]

Ah, the tribal voter. They must render a good 90% of political theorising moot!

 

[rikwakefield]

Is it for yourself? What interests you, then? Economics? The parliamentary affairs of a particular country? Geo politics?

I'd like to start with UK policitcs and the mandates and goals of each political idea. Then i'd like to move onto the US.

 

[rikwakefield]

Why not go to a library and read some books?

Or do a course?

Good idea.

And thanks for all the other responses and advice. Food for thought.

 

[danny la rouge]

I'd like to start with UK policitcs and the mandates and goals of each political idea.

What political ideas?

 

[TremulousTetra]

Are there any sites to recommend for someone interested in learning about politics? Non-biased is essential.

Thanks in advance.

this is good, only because you can put it on your iPod and listen on the bus etc. As long as you listen with the preservation other people have already made, that you listen in the knowledge that this is a one sided revolutionary socialist perspective.

www.ResistanceMP3.org.uk

 

[TAE]

Capitalism would be OK, if only it were nicer.

Replace 'it' with 'we'.

 

[dylans]

Are there any sites to recommend for someone interested in learning about politics? Non-biased is essential.

Thanks in advance.

The whole point about politics and political history is that the claim to be "unbiased" is itself a political statement. Therefore the concept of "unbiased" itself is biased. There is no such thing as a "science" of politics. The attempt to frame politics as political science, modelled on the natural sciences is itself ideological (ie "biased")

Likewise the idea that history (which is in essence political history) can be studied or analysed without recourse to ideology is also an ideological concept.

The right always attempt to castrate political and historical analysis from ideolgy. The idea of history as kings and queens and dates etc is a right wing, ie ideological, concept.In other words the attempt at a non ideological (ie inbiased) political discourse is itself the result of right wing ideology

Politics cannot be analysed "objectively" the ideology and values of the analyst will always colour the way history is seen.

The questions you ask will determine the answers you get. And the questions you ask will inevitable be framed by ideology Furthermore the meaning and significance of the answers you get will be determined by ideology.

It is better and more revealing to recognise the inherant ideological nature of political and historical analysis from the outset.

There is no "unbiased" politics. It is an inherently ideological subject. The claim to "unbiased" political analysis is itself biased.

f you are interested in politics as an acedemic subject. I suggest you start by looking at an overview of political ideologies. In particular read Karl Marx. I say that not because I have a particular love of Marx but because the most important and revealing history is written by marxist historians (Hobsbawn, EP Thompson for example)

 

[CyberRose]

Are there any sites to recommend for someone interested in learning about politics? Non-biased is essential.

Thanks in advance.

Don't ask anyone in this forum! They're clueless, absolutely clueless! With their heads in the sand they manage to avoid any contact with reality or how normal people think, sniffing their own farts in an orgy of self indulgence!

But seriously, yea Wikipedia is a good bet, or for some reason unknown to anyone, the Sheff Utd forum usually has loads of political debates which will show you how real people think about various issues!

 

[DotCommunist]

a football forum and a secondary source site notorious for it's unreliability and edit-wars when it comes to politics.

pmsl

 

[CyberRose]

a football forum and a secondary source site notorious for it's unreliability and edit-wars when it comes to politics.

pmsl

Ah DotCommunist! Come to sniff your own farts I see!