glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
In theory pure syndicalism is great...
Political trade unionism and disaffiliation
- Thread starter glenquagmire
- Start date
glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
Is it?
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Pure Syndicalism are your words not mine. I'm just trying to take a look at the situation in terms of where power currently lies. The power of capital lies in the state, the power of labour lies in collective action through the trade unions.
The state however is currently in a period of crisis; budget deficits larger than they have ever been, a banking system that still remains crippled despite vast sums of printed money and unprecedented low interest rates, a loss of credibility in the eyes of the public due to years of broken promises, and wars it can't afford in lands it has no support in being in.
The result of this is that things are going to get a whole lot worse for us in the years to come. Public services will be drastically cut back, taxes will soar, interest rates will skyrocket in the next year or two, and unemplyment is set to rise further and further.
If the trade unions stopped throwing money at New Labour and used the money in the community, then a lot of the pain that is headed our way could be eased. Apart from putting money aside as a strike fund, unions could be setting up credit unions, support funds for laid off workers, neighbourhood watch schemes, soup kitchens, sheltered accomodation for evicted families, business advice for startups, micro-financing, and god knows what else. Just use your imagination.
These aren't purely theoretical things, they are practical measures to improve peoples lives. Isn't that what TU's were set up to do?
glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
Yes, that's what TUs do.
But over a hundred years ago, trade unionists realised that it wasn't enough just to fight in the workplace, and that if life was to improve for their members, the working class needed to be represented politically as well. So set up the Labour Party.
Those who disagreed with participating in the process, as you seem to, were derided as syndicalists. If that's your position, fair enough, I think it's nonsense but at least I understand it.
But over a hundred years ago, trade unionists realised that it wasn't enough just to fight in the workplace, and that if life was to improve for their members, the working class needed to be represented politically as well. So set up the Labour Party.
Those who disagreed with participating in the process, as you seem to, were derided as syndicalists. If that's your position, fair enough, I think it's nonsense but at least I understand it.
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
It's not so much that i disagree with participating in the political process as such. It's that I believe politics are meaningless unless a base exists at the bottom of society from which to build a structure from. People are atomised to such an extent that we need to start from first principles again and build up community cohesion. This can only happen from the bottom up.
I'm also skeptical about how much a left wing government could do even if it got into a position of power. Like I said earlier, it may be that the state is in a crisis that will at best put government in a straight jacket for years to come, and at worse paralyse it to the point where we follow the route that Argentina took in the late 90's to early 00's. If this happens then circumstances will dictate the course of action for us I guess. Who knows what the outcome will be.
On the other hand, if the economy makes a sustainable recovery then I can't imagine a left wing government getting anywhere near 10 Downing Street. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this subject though.
I'm off to visit family for the weekend so can't continue the conversation till next week. It's been good speaking with you though. Take it easy.
in italy france and spain ( and elsewhere) the old left mass parties have gone .. are they any worse off than here? actually neo liberalism has been at it's strongest here in the UK with the Labour Party. I appreciate it seems daunting to think of the end of the Labour Party but frankly i am not sure what it offers us, though i understand LRCs argument.
in ther immediate John MacDonnell could easily be funded independantly.
glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
It's not the end of the Labour Party that worries me, it's the question of what replaces it. John McDonnell as a lone socialist MP isn't much of a programme for winning political power.
glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
yes of course i appreciate that which is why i believe that like one hundred years ago we need to concentrate on building from the base now.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Why exacrly do we need to cling onto John McDonnell or the other 10 similar types? What protection do they provide?
glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
Is that directed to me?
On its own, it's not much of a strategy, it's true.
On its own, it's not much of a strategy, it's true.
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