Policing Brixton: correspondence with Lambeth/London Assembly

[tarannau]

Oh come on Agricola, that dismissive response of yours to my initial post was more than enough of an indication of your attitude. Either that or you've got the social interaction skills of the average autistic on a bad day - which is somewhat depressing to observe in a serving officer I'd suggest. It also provides a salutary example of how one smartarse, dismissive officer can negatively colour perceptions of the police - see my posts along with DB's earlier on this thread.

So let's stop with the mealy mouthed nonsense eh. It wasn't just me noticing your rudeness and inaccuracies on this thread -posters have been laughing at you. Well done.

 

[Mr Retro]

. Either that or you've got the social interaction skills of the average autistic on a bad day - which is somewhat depressing to observe in a serving officer I'd suggest.

This is

It also provides a salutary example of how one smartarse, dismissive officer can negatively colour perceptions of the police - see my posts along with DB's earlier on this thread.

Unfortunately this is true and

 

[agricola]

Oh come on Agricola, that dismissive response of yours to my initial post was more than enough of an indication of your attitude. Either that or you've got the social interaction skills of the average autistic on a bad day - which is somewhat depressing to observe in a serving officer I'd suggest. It also provides a salutary example of how one smartarse, dismissive officer can negatively colour perceptions of the police - see my posts along with DB's earlier on this thread.

So let's stop with the mealy mouthed nonsense eh. It wasn't just me noticing your rudeness and inaccuracies on this thread -posters have been laughing at you. Well done.

Well, if you think I have been being rude to you, then I can only imagine just how "rude" those officers were to you those five times, and I also note how quickly you have read what you wanted to read into my comments.

As DB notes, some people being percieved as being "rude" is of concern, and yes, there are some rude officers, whose interactions can affect how people percieve the Police. However, the actions of those people should not and does not mean that these attitudes are representative of anything other than those individual people (which is what you initially claimed) - certainly, I do not recall any rudeness class being taught at Hendon, or anywhere else.

 

[Blagsta]

A friend of mine teaches race relation classes at Hendon.

 

[tarannau]

Well, if you think I have been being rude to you, then I can only imagine just how "rude" those officers were to you those five times, and I also note how quickly you have read what you wanted to read into my comments.

For christsakes man, it's not just me who thinks you've acted like a dismissive prat on this thread. And here you are still trying to imply that your responses were anything other than the patronising, superior sounding twaddle that they actually were.

Grow up. Get some social skills and a sense of contrition. I really hope you can communicate better in your professional life.

 

[tarannau]

A friend of mine teaches race relation classes at Hendon.

I suspect he's very good at it too if it's the same bloke I'm thinking of.

Perhaps 'teaches' is a slightly misleading term, he more particpates in roleplays to simulate real life situations. Generally I suspect he plays the role of 'chupsty black male no.1' to perfection and measures the reaction accordingly. He's got some interesting tales to tell.

 

[agricola]

For christsakes man, it's not just me who thinks you've acted like a dismissive prat on this thread. And here you are still trying to imply that your responses were anything other than the patronising, superior sounding twaddle that they actually were.

That is because they were no more "patronising, superior sounding twaddle" comments than they were all the other things you have claimed those very same comments meant.

 

[Blagsta]

Generally I suspect he plays the role of 'chupsty black male no.1' to perfection .

I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same person

 

[Dubversion]

even I know who you mean

 

[tarannau]

That is because they were no more "patronising, superior sounding twaddle" comments than they were all the other things you have claimed those very same comments meant.

I'm sorry officer, we've obviously all got the wrong end of the stick.

Yes, that's right isn't it. Clearly you're speaking in a variety of snide that we all failed to comprehend correctly.


Shall I lend you a book on how to communicate effectively before you make even more of an arse out of yourself in a more sensitive situation? Really, you couldn't make this shit up.

 

[hendo]

This is a sad thread. Can't we get back to discussing the situation facing the embattled law abiding residents of the Barrier blocks/Somerleyton?

 

[editor]

This is a sad thread. Can't we get back to discussing the situation facing the embattled law abiding residents of the Barrier blocks/Somerleyton?

I'd like that too.

 

[detective-boy]

... they're in, what's in essence, a customer facing role requiring a certain degree of politeness ....

Something that many (most?) are notoriously bad at and, more worryingly, something the organisation as a whole seems pathologically unable to grasp - the standards of telephone and personal contact at stations have gone down if anything over the last ten years. The Met especially must be one of the worst organisations to contact - they're an abolsute fucking nightmare even if you know enough to argue with them ...

 

[tarannau]

Thanks DB. The weird thing is that I've known and liked plenty of police outside of uniform, but I'm almost unfailingly let down when I see them act in public and actually have to talk to people. The exceptions tend to the high visibility occasions like the country show, where relations are cheery temporarily.

Still, if there's one thing this sorry thread illustrates, it's why I'm not keen to give officers added discretionary powers to move people on without charge. That requires a certain level of sensitivity, communication skills and diplomacy - all qualities which Agricola has clearly failed to display on this thread.

And when other serving officers on this board have tended to act like inflammatory, unrepentant nobbers (see Pot Bellied Pig's or PDXM's previous contributions) then you can see why I'm not exactly hopeful of quick change.

 

[Jonti]

Right, so apart from changing the drug laws to be at least vaguely rational, and changing coppers to be at least as polite as the average urbanite* -- what can be done to ease the plight of the embattled residents of the Barrier Blocks and Somerleyton Road area, one of the most troubled estates in England?

* a modest enough goal, surely

 

[bluestreak]

knock it down and rebuild it?

 

[Jonti]

I'm not sure that's completely necessary.

I've long thought a cooperative housing association whose members are (all the) tenants on the estate and which elects a management committee or board to run things would be helpful. It would take a lot of support and education, housing management being a real professional skill and all, but it's do-able.

Where that kind of radical solution of letting the tenants take control has been tried it has often worked (I can probably back up this assertion with links etc if need be).

LBL prolly wouldn't like the idea though, and they would really have to get behind the idea and work hard to bring it off. It's at least as much work as was setting up the Lambeth Credit Union. Being half hearted and having tenants sort of run things while the Council remained in charge would likely not work at all well.

And (this may sound laughable, but ...) having horse mounted police officers making regular visits could work wonders in terms of making friendly contact. Kids would turn out in their droves to pat the horses and chat, and they could do that without fear of being branded as snitches for being seen talking with coppers. Maybe.

Someone must have some other ideas, surely. I mean P&P is full of clever people with ideas of how to sort world problems and shit. Surely the problems of a council estate are small beer in comparison!

 

[detective-boy]

Someone must have some other ideas, surely. I mean P&P is full of clever people with ideas of how to sort world problems and shit. Surely the problems of a council estate are small beer in comparison!

Sadly not! I suspect their plan would start:

1. Abolish the concept of private property, because property is theft.
2. ...

Some way of getting people to take ownership of their own environment has to be the way forward. Not sure about the mounties though - they tried that when I was there ten years ago (albeit on the Stockwell Park Estate) ... and the little shits stubbed a fag out on the horse ...

 

[TopCat]

The horses deserve what they get. I nearly lost a toe after a police thug on a horse galloped through a peaceful crowd at Crystal Palace (to get to a small fight elsewhere) a few years back. The bastard hit me in the chest and trod on my foot, splitting my trainer.

Has anyone suggested regular police patrols of the area carried out by police who actually live in the area or shock horror on the estate?

 

[TopCat]

In fairness, I've seen cops outside my block act very professionally in the face of serious provocation from lairy fuckwits hellbent on confrontation.

Thats because they don't want to be the copper responsible for another riot.

 

[editor]

Thats because they don't want to be the copper responsible for another riot.

Or that the particular instances I'm referring to were examples of coppers actually doing their job well in the face of extreme provocation by louts?

I'm no fan of the police, but I like to think I'm fair-minded about them.

 

[TopCat]

Or that the particular instances I'm referring to were examples of coppers actually doing their job well in the face of extreme provocation by louts?

I'm no fan of the police, but I like to think I'm fair-minded about them.

I do accept the truth of what you are asserting. Soemtimes police people can be professional, polite and do a fairhanded job. They are more likely to behave this way when they are wary of the people they are dealing with because of their wealth or family connections or indeed when a bit of rudeness or a few slaps might lead to three days of burning and a looting.

I don't think they treat the people of Brixton fairly because of the first reason.

 

[gabi]

All my dealings (and I've seen it from both sides) with the cops in London have been ok actually - which is a lot more than I can say about where I come from originally.

If you treat them with respect, its generally returned IME. Swinging punches and throwing bottles etc doesn't seem to go down too well (as I've witnessed a coupla times on CHL). Nor should it.

 

[detective-boy]

Has anyone suggested regular police patrols of the area carried out by police who actually live in the area or shock horror on the estate?

There are none (well, very, very few).

Police officers earn enough to aspire to property ownership ... but not at the prices which would be applied in central London ... hence they tend to live in the suburbs.

There used to be section houses in central London, so at least some young officers tended to socialise locally (albeit in very policey groups), join local gyms, etc. ... but they mostly got closed down and sold off.

As long ago at 1996 I submitted a report suggesting that we needed to find ways of having police officers living locally (generally, not just in Brixton) because it had become apparent that local youths did not know any police officers as neighbours, members of sports teams, relatives, etc. etc. first and police officers second and these unofficial links went a long way to helping inform about police activity / powers. The report disappeared somewhere in Human Resources ...

 

[detective-boy]

Or that the particular instances I'm referring to were examples of coppers actually doing their job well in the face of extreme provocation by louts?

As the vast majority do, the vast majority of the time.