Police Vet Live Music And DJs For 'Terror Risk'

[coccinelle]

I thought people might like to see this piece

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/11/met_police_live_music_terror_trawl/

 

[topaz]

ffs

 

[editor]

Good grief.

"Music promotions attract people who have a propensity to use violence. That's not speculation. We have a duty to prevent that from happening."

 

[cozmikbrew]

You couldnt make this shit up could ya??!!! unbefuckinglevable!

 

[bluestreak]

I wonder if we could do an FOI on some of that and find out which acts get events shut down.

 

[DeadManWalking]

The bit about names of artists is new to me but I knew that the police ask for details of nights put on in the Collessium in Vauxhall and they have to get police approval (probably due to history of shooting/stabbings there in the UK garage days)

 

[winston smith]

The vip/artists entrance at this years m.o.b.o.s at wembley arena had a metal detector and full bag search, a liscensing requirement afaik.

I know it is standard on the main door at most venues, but i have never seen performers or crew getting searched before (or since.)

I am going back to wembley tonight to do spot lights for cliff richard, somehow i get the feeling they wont have metal detectors and drug dogs!

 

[longdog]

Police vet live music, DJs for 'terror risk': Holy Fuck!

You thought you'd heard it all in the mis-application of anti-terrorism laws (well, OK, you probably hadn't) but cop for this...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/11/met_police_live_music_terror_trawl/

A dozen London boroughs have implemented a "risk assessment" policy for live music that permits the police to ban any live music if they fail to receive personal details from the performers 14 days in advance. The demand explicitly singles out performances and musical styles favoured by the black community: garage and R&B, and MCs and DJs.

However all musical performances - from one man playing a guitar on up - are subject to the demands once implemented by the council. And the threat is serious: failure to comply "may jeopardise future events by the promoter or the venue".

UK Music chief Feargal Sharkey told a House of Commons select committee that the policy had already been used to pull the plug on an afternoon charity concert of school bands in a public park organised by a local councillor.

WTF!

 

[Crispy]

merged

 

[DJWrongspeed]

"The police want information 14 days in advance to assess the risk of a terror threat"

Jeez, they've done this name/addr/dob/tel no. thing at the foundry for TEN license applications. I thought it was Hackney Council being pernicious, clearly it's catching on

Absolutely mad.......

 

[longdog]

merged

Ooops.

Sorry

 

[derf]

I don't know maybe they have it right. Lets face it some of that music puts fucking terror into me I'll tell you.

If garage music is a bit like house music but not good enough for indoors could it be renamed shithouse music?

 

[derf]

Just been to a rock gig here. Music wasn't great but not bad.
The local cops were out in serious force with large sicks and sub machine guns. No trouble at all for some reason.

 

[iskande]

so whos associating this with terrorism. apart from el reg getting its knicker in a twist for some hits ? ah, i see its fergal sharkey trying to get some publicity.

( and i would of thought having fergal sharkey as head of uk music was a terrorist action ! )

 

[perplexis]

Suffering fuck that is tragic/pathetic/horrific/distubing.
I wonder where his stats are for what type of music is responsible for violence?
Isn't this just some kind of barely-concealed racism?

 

[ohmyliver]

erm, as it says in the article

"UK Music chief Feargal Sharkey told a House of Commons select committee that the policy had already been used to pull the plug on an afternoon charity concert of school bands in a public park organised by a local councillor.

"No alcohol would be sold, tickets were limited to three maximum, and the councillor offered to supply eight registered doormen. Police objected on the grounds that the names, addresses and dates of birth of the young performer could not be provided," said Sharkey, speaking to the Department of Culture Media and Sport's hearing on venue licensing today.

"Live music is now a threat to the prevention of terrorism", he concluded."

is this a comprehension test or something?

 

[iskande]

erm, as it says in the article

"UK Music chief Feargal Sharkey told a House of Commons select committee that the policy had already been used to pull the plug on an afternoon charity concert of school bands in a public park organised by a local councillor.

"No alcohol would be sold, tickets were limited to three maximum, and the councillor offered to supply eight registered doormen. Police objected on the grounds that the names, addresses and dates of birth of the young performer could not be provided," said Sharkey, speaking to the Department of Culture Media and Sport's hearing on venue licensing today.

"Live music is now a threat to the prevention of terrorism", he concluded."

is this a comprehension test or something?

fergel sharkey has concluded that live music is perceived as a terrorist threat. are we all supposed to believe shit musicians ?

hes then used an emotive example to demonstrate this. somehow i think there may be something more to this ...

 

[ohmyliver]

fergel sharkey has concluded that live music is perceived as a terrorist threat. are we all supposed to believe shit musicians ?

hes then used an emotive example to demonstrate this. somehow i think there may be something more to this ...

aw come on, they probably hired him because a good heart is hard to find. Especially in politics.

 

[Ground Elder]

Can we not find some teenagers to give him a kicking?

 

[coccinelle]

Feargal Sharkey is a bit of a bletherer but he is trying to push home a point to MPs in the language they understand. He is on the side of music events and that's his official job now: to champion live music in the UK and to stop Government/authority encroachment on live music entertainment.

 

[audiotech]

'Bomb the Bass'?

 

[rollinder]

^ they've got bomb in the name, they're obviously dangourous terrorists

 

[_float_]

Detective Superintendent Dave Eyles from the Met's clubs and vice office:

" ... Music promotions attract people who have a propensity to use violence ... we're not vetting the performers - we're looking at the audience. It's not the music it's the people who follow it, who use that event as a catalyst to commit crimes ... some venues use their inhouse DJs all the time - others fly them in from around the world. It's not just their track record in the UK we're looking at but we're looking worldwide - what has happened historically at those events ... we can effectively look at those venues and say by putting in some measures as a last resort, canceling the event, we can prevent crime."

Dear D.S.I. Eyles,

Maybe you could use Time Out, dontstayin.com, myspace or the other places that people find out about gigs? Maybe you could employ someone who knows about the specific music scene you are interested in to give you a week-by-week list of events where there might be trouble? Why not start with the DJs/artists you are interested in and simply find out when they are coming to London? Or are you trying to get a database to do all your thinking for you?

I'm thinking that either an artist/DJ will be so well known that this is pointless, or they will *not* be well known and so the correct details will not be included on the forms to prevent database matches ...

ie either the police will know that someone is 'of interest' and has an event coming (in which case the forms are redundant) or the police don't really have a clue and so the club or artist will be able to full in a load of bullshit and noone would know any different, unless they actually went and sussed it out - and created their own intelligence.

If there are no legal sanctions against filling in incorrect information then why would a venue want to get its own events shut down by listing people who might have 'previous'?

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Blimey! Seriously, why all the pussyfooting around the elephant in the room?

It's crazy when people get all outraged about perceived police racism, but where's the equal outrage against the whole gun-totin' gansta ethos?

Can no one else acknowledge that music genre is perhaps relevant, after all, because some music genres do glorify crime, carrying and using weapons, degrading attitudes towards women and homophobia? And wouldn't that be in some way indicative of the attitudes of *some of* the followers of that genre?

Also, I mean, when the much-hyped battle of the bands Blur v Oasis rivalry was at its height, how bad did it get? Timed release and a race for number one, name calling, macho posturing and exchanging some verbals? And I don't recall any fatal rivalry whatsoever in the Madchester music scene, to use another random music genre as an example. Pop attacks and/or fatalities? Jazz attacks and/or fatalities? Blues attacks and/fatalities? Country and western attacks and/or fatalities? Acid music (well, I guess a few pill popping incidents, but violent attacks...)?

Rap attacks and/or fatalities?

Tupac
Biggie Smalls
Run DMC

There's quite a roll coll, Google "rapper shot dead" there's loads, in fact there's quite a roll call here:

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/rapper-deathstyle.html

And that's just the performance artists, not mentioning their followers.

There *is* an issue relating to gun carrying and gun crime among performers and followers of *some* genres. Deal with the issue instead of concentrating on the colour of a person's skin and crying 'racism'. It's a real issue that needs addressing, surely?

And for all those who play the racism card, why advocate a 'hands off' approach? Surely it's in the interests of those involved in the music scene themselves? Take a look at that link above. Take a look at that roll call of rappers shot dead. Take a look at their ages. The vast majority of them were in their 20s. Now isn't that a terrible f***ing waste of human life? Isn't it, actually, and on the contrarty, rather racist to leave young people in the cess pool that's been created around them and to not take any action to protect them and provide alternatives to carrying and using guns?

If young guys like those feel the need to carry to protect themselves from rivals, then why aren't people crying out for the police to get those metal detectors working and to work towards protecting people from violence and often fatal crime? Don't they deserve the same kind of protections that others in wider society enjoy? Don't they deserve to be safe and to be able to live beyond their 20s to a ripe old age? Isn't it racist that they're seemingly *not* so entitled?

 

[Fictionist]

Of the artists that you cite above, how many of them were actually killed at a musical event?

 

[ddraig]

to Ann
and where do you start?

how long will it take to correct the errors that were made and built up from many years ago?

there have been moves within and against the scenes or genres that have undoubtedly had probs, has it worked? what next

yes they should've had metal detectors and shit at something like that. i remember going through them at the lazerdrome in peckham when they used to do innersense and other rave do's over 15yrs ago

 

[cybertect]

There *is* an issue relating to gun carrying and gun crime among performers and followers of *some* genres.

Don't forget that rock 'n' roller Teddy Boys are associated with knife crime

 

[ymu]

Suffering fuck that is tragic/pathetic/horrific/distubing.
I wonder where his stats are for what type of music is responsible for violence?
Isn't this just some kind of barely-concealed racism?

Very barely concealed.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/23/civil-liberties-clubs

I was, until recently, a regular at a monthly club night before the police suddenly started strictly enforcing ID checks. This wasn't merely to ensure I was above the required 18 years of age. Not only was everyone required to provide visual identification, but they also had to be logged in a computer database – otherwise none of us could go in. Everyone's driving licences were scanned through a machine and recorded on a computer, with no indication of how long the police would store the information for.

When I objected, the (white) club promoter was quite frank with me. He said the police had said they were "concerned" that the venue played "black and Asian music" and hence wanted added security. Any sort of trouble is extremely rare at this night. Yet their reasoning was that if any fight broke out, they could track everyone at the event if necessary.

Form 696 explicitly singles out musical styles such as R&B, bashment, garage or styles including MCs/DJs as examples of genres that have to be stated if put on. It also required event producers to state the likely racial profile of people attending. When accusations of racial profiling were inevitably raised by the music industry, the Met changed the wording to ask who it was targeted at.

One London council has already invoked prevention of terrorism in its licensing guidelines for live events.

Will people speak out only when live event-goers are asked for fingerprints and retina scans – all maintained on a database for "their own security"?

 

[Fozzie Bear]

We covered this bullshit in issue 2 of Woofah magazine last year and it's good to see it getting wider coverage.

The point made in our piece by grime DJ Logan Sama was firstly that there is hardly ever any trouble at grime events (when we were actually allowed to have them in London, that is). And secondly that this is basically the police abnegating their responsibilities - taking a short cut because they think they can get away with it.

As I commented elsewhere about this:

Nobody is saying that all grime artists are angels but I fail to see how it is effective policing to put pressure on grime events because of this. In fact it is completely counterproductive because it means people are less likely to make a living off music.

"Dodgy people" congregating to listen to and perform music isn't a crime the last time I checked. If it was then the police wouldn't be arsing about behind the scenes with these forms.​

 

[winjer]

Scotland Yard said today that it was altering a "potentially racist" form which asks clubs whether they play music popular with the black and Asian communities, after pressure from politicians, musicians and equality campaigners.

Form 696 – targeting violence at music venues – asks owners to provide the name, address and telephone numbers of artists and promoters, as well as the style of music to be played at forthcoming events.

In particular, the form gives "bashment, R&B, garage" as options – genres popular with black and Asian people.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/sep/07/met-police-form-696-clubs