Police Taser 14 Yr Old...

[Azrael]

OBEY! OBEY! OBEY!

What's the flip-side? REBEL, REBEL, REBEL?

'without excusing the officer I can confidently put the blame on the 14 yo girl who didn't OBEY. 14 year olds are of course noted for thier rational behaviour.'

Thanks for quoting the bit where I said "without excusing the officer". I was careful to say it plenty of times, since I suspected that failure to show the correct type of condemnation would lead to this response.

The best way to avoid confrontations with the police is to stop when you're told to. This is a statement of the obvious. It does nothing to get the officer off the hook.

 

[Azrael]

@ Azrael...it was this that got my back up TBH...

"Although if the officer was going on his instinct to get control of a situation, you can see how it happened without him being some kind of drooling sadist"

Instinct, in some cases, is all well and good. But to use that as an excuse when you know that you're going to 'just talk' to a 14 yr old, then to taser her In The Fucking Head...that's just obscene. That's not instinct. He's not in the fucking Bronx FFS. It's someone with a bit of authority weilding it to it's maximim potential. And it begs the question...is this how, all front line forces are trained? To blindly follow instruction and instinct, and to fuck with common sense?

Except I didn't use it to excuse him. And made that clear by saying, in the very next sentence, "Wouldn't make it right, or excuse him, unless there's some exceptional circumstance I can't think of." The officer should be expected to control his instinct. I was simply offering a possible explanation, not to exonerate the officer, but to suggest the police need to modify their training to stop it happening again.

 

[untethered]

Azrael, I think you must be the new DetectiveBoy. No matter what you say you are wrong because of who you are.

 

[DotCommunist]

Azrael, I think you must be the new DetectiveBoy. No matter what you say you are wrong because of who you are.

love is in the air. Be sure to but Azrael appropriate Promenade wear, won't you?

 

[Azrael]

Azrael, I think you must be the new DetectiveBoy. No matter what you say you are wrong because of who you are.

If that's the case, I guess it'll be amusing to watch people line up argue against jury trial, habeas corpus, the right to silence, and severely restricted police powers.

 

[Azrael]

love is in the air. Be sure to but Azrael appropriate Promenade wear, won't you?

I take it your sudden and touching concern with my promenade wear's a tacit admission you made a whopping great mistake about what I was saying?

 

[DotCommunist]

What's the flip-side? REBEL, REBEL, REBEL?

p'raps just healthy distrust for people who love a uniform? *awaits obvious point about mcdees etc uniforms*

Thanks for quoting the bit where I said "without excusing the officer". I was careful to say it plenty of times, since I suspected that failure to show the correct type of condemnation would lead to this response.

The best way to avoid confrontations with the police is to stop when you're told to. This is a statement of the obvious. It does nothing to get the officer off the hook.

and yet you took the time to think of a situation where tazering an unarmed 14 yo girl might be acceptable. It's wear the jack boot or lick it in your world eh?

 

[Azrael]

p'raps just healthy distrust for people who love a uniform? *awaits obvious point about mcdees etc uniforms*

Well I quite like the smart, dull tunics our police used to wear. I think all the posts criticising police powers are more relevant though.

and yet you took the time to think of a situation where tazering an unarmed 14 yo girl might be acceptable. It's wear the jack boot or lick it in your world eh?

Except I said that "unless there's some exceptional circumstance I can't think of", it wasn't. So I took no time at all to think of a situation where tazering an unarmed 14-year-old girl might be acceptable.

The original cock-up is understandable enough. Deliberately trying to misrepresent my views is a different kettle of fish altogether, and something I hope you'll not stoop to.

 

[DotCommunist]

And without excusing the officer, none of this would have happened if Ms Martinez had obeyed the order to stop.

obedience would have saved her. Like it always does.

 

[untethered]

obedience would have saved her. Like it always does.

Obedience to lawful authority isn't the be all and end all of good citizenship but it's a good place to start.

And you can say what you like about this particular incident but I suspect the young lady will have learned that lesson the hard way and be happier for it, too.

Of course, it's clear to absolutely everyone that the police officer went about this in the wrong kind of way.

 

[Azrael]

obedience would have saved her. Like it always does.

In this specific circumstance, obeying the officer probably would have stopped Ms Martinez from being electrocuted. Are you even denying that?

Not running off in the first place would definitely have prevented it.

 

[In Bloom]

In this specific circumstance, obeying the officer probably would have stopped Ms Martinez from being electrocuted. Are you even denying that?

18 stitches, 6 staples and a massive bald patch. What 14 year old girl wouldn't be grateful for that?

 

[Azrael]

Your point being? I note you haven't denied the quote either.

Insults are the best sign of a weak argument, but innuendo's got to be up there!

 

[DotCommunist]

In this specific circumstance, obeying the officer probably would have stopped Ms Martinez from being electrocuted. Are you even denying that?

Not running off in the first place would definitely have prevented it.

Whenever I'm in the situation where a teenage girl is running away I immediately reach for the non-lethal weapon that has track record of killing people. Gives me a stiffy.

 

[DotCommunist]

Obedience to lawful authority isn't the be all and end all of good citizenship but it's a good place to start.

And you can say what you like about this particular incident but I suspect the young lady will have learned that lesson the hard way and be happier for it, too.

Of course, it's clear to absolutely everyone that the police officer went about this in the wrong kind of way.

yes, but your kind only likes 'lawful' authority when it acts to protect what you think is society. If OB acts in a manner that doesn't fit your world view they suddenly become the Stasi.
I consistently think them cunts.

 

[Azrael]

Whenever I'm in the situation where a teenage girl is running away I immediately reach for the non-lethal weapon that has track record of killing people. Gives me a stiffy.

Since you're not actually interested in discussing the issue, I'll say g'night before you reveal any more curious thoughts about stun-guns.

 

[Intastella]

Obedience to lawful authority isn't the be all and end all of good citizenship but it's a good place to start.

And you can say what you like about this particular incident but I suspect the young lady will have learned that lesson the hard way and be happier for it, too.

Of course, it's clear to absolutely everyone that the police officer went about this in the wrong kind of way.

Good job you put that disclaimer in there...otherwise you'd have people thinking that you're a right cunt.

 

[In Bloom]

Your point being? I note you haven't denied the quote either.

Insults are the best sign of a weak argument, but innuendo's got to be up there!

Do you really need walking through this one? Teenage girl is taken to the police station by her mother for a talking to, teenage girl hoofs it, teenage girl is then shot with a taser by a police officer despite having done nothing whatosever wrong and posing no threat to anyone, leaving her physically scarred. How "happy" do you think said teenage girl is likely to be about that?

For all your talk about opposing tyranny, you're basically arguing for slavish obedience of authority figures beyond the remit they even claim for themselves in order to avoid being hurt. Craven fucking cowardice and hypocrisy of the worst kind, IMO.

Edit: Ah, quoted the wrong post anyway, I meant to quote this little gem:

I suspect the young lady will have learned that lesson the hard way and be happier for it, too.

 

[DotCommunist]

Since you're not actually interested in discussing the issue, I'll say g'night before you reveal any more curious thoughts about stun-guns.

good, and here's a bowl of meal for your mouth. Keep up the apologist work!

 

[untethered]

Good job you put that disclaimer in there...otherwise you'd have people thinking that you're a right c-.

The bar is set pretty low around here, to be honest.

 

[Intastella]

The bar is set pretty low around here, to be honest.

Not low enough for you to knock yourself out on tho ey?



BTW...don't censor me...you'll only make me swear in big letters. Cheers.

 

[Azrael]

Do you really need walking through this one? Teenage girl is taken to the police station by her mother for a talking to, teenage girl hoofs it, teenage girl is then shot with a taser by a police officer despite having done nothing whatosever wrong and posing no threat to anyone, leaving her physically scarred. How "happy" do you think said teenage girl is likely to be about that?

For all your talk about opposing tyranny, you're basically arguing for slavish obedience of authority figures beyond the remit they even claim for themselves in order to avoid being hurt. Craven fucking cowardice and hypocrisy of the worst kind, IMO.

Do you not think that there are alternative ways to fight unjust authority than refusing to obey a taser-happy officer? What you say only makes sense if the only way to fight unjust authority is by taking a few thousand volts. In which case, goodness help us!

I think you'll need a bit more than suggesting it's wise to come back to a staionhouse when an adrenaline-fuelled cop is waving a taser gun at you to claim I dig "slavish obedience to authority". What's the likely outcome had the girl done so? Either the promised talking to and then home, or being booked for some misdemeanour she could later fight in court. (And so far we don't know if the officer was exceeding his authority. Which he doesn't "claim for himself", BTW.)

So what exactly are you walking me through? On the facts presented, the officer should be dismissed and jailed.

 

[In Bloom]

Do you not think that there are alternative ways to fight unjust authority than refusing to obey a taser-happy officer? What you say only makes sense if the only way to fight unjust authority is by taking a few thousand volts. In which case, goodness help us!

I think you'll need a bit more than suggesting it's wise to come back to a staionhouse when an adrenaline-fuelled cop is waving a taser gun at you to claim I dig "slavish obedience to authority". What's the likely outcome had the girl done so? Either the promised talking to and then home, or being booked for some misdemeanour she could later fight in court. (And so far we don't know if the officer was exceeding his authority. Which he doesn't "claim for himself", BTW.)

So what exactly are you walking me through? On the facts presented, the officer should be dismissed and jailed.

Of course you have to pick your battles at times, but blaming a teenager for choosing unwisely in a situation like that is pretty fucked up.

 

[Azrael]

Of course you have to pick your battles at times, but blaming a teenager for choosing unwisely in a situation like that is pretty fucked up.

Since I'm not claiming Ms Martinez shares any of the blame for being tasered, I don't see how it's screwed up to say that it's unwise to run from the police, and then to ignore a warning to stop. Sensible, really. Even the ACLU have advised people to avoid street brawls and fight it later in the courts.

 

[In Bloom]

Since I'm not claiming Ms Martinez shares any of the blame for being tasered, I don't see how it's screwed up to say that it's unwise to run from the police, and then to ignore a warning to stop. Sensible, really.

Your tone implies victim blaming quite heavily. Either that or you were making a completely pointless statment of obvious fact.

Even the ACLU have advised people to avoid street brawls and fight it later in the courts.

Well yeah, but that's because the ACLU is largely made up of naive liberals with an absurd level of faith in the courts.

 

[Pip]

Maybe she thought - since she hadn't actually done anything wrong - she had no reason to be scared and intimidated by the police.

 

[Intastella]

Maybe she thought - since she hadn't actually done anything wrong - she had no reason to be scared and intimidated by the police.

She does now

 

[DotCommunist]

Maybe she thought - since she hadn't actually done anything wrong - she had no reason to be scared and intimidated by the police.

guilty till proven

 

[ViolentPanda]

Self-defense isn't the only legitimate use of force: police are also entitled to use reasonable force to compel people to submit to an arrest. As it was a minor in this incident, there might be additional grounds, like preventing Mr Martinez from running away.

The word is spelled "d-e-f-e-n-c-e", unless you're an American, you feeble-minded oaf.

 

[tombowler]

Well here is you turning backflips to see a situation where using a fucking tazer on a 14 year old girl is acceptable. That's what annoys me. Your caveats are mealy mouthed bullshit. I could restrain a 14 yo girl unless she was freakishly gigantic. And I certainly wouldn't need to use a tazer.

Im not disagreeing with your point that the atser should never be used on a minor but

I watched a 14Y/O girl in my care resisit arrest and the two cops taking her really had thier hands full nearly crashed the cop car as she kicked the driver in the head while being restrained in the back. I would still say no to the tazer option my mate was tazered some time back ( she is a copper its part of the training in her country) she said it bloody hurt all you can do is fall as all your muscles tense, i dread to think what one in the brain would do.