Police shoot man in forest gate

[potential]

wot was all those brazil top's mularky ???

 

[TAE]

At the demo?

As-far-as-I-know that was in solidarity with the shot brazilian, I think some of his relatives took part in the protest.

 

[detective-boy]

Was there ANY evidence that he was, in fact, planning an attack?

He was convicted by a jury in court, with a full defence. I think it is reasonable to assume there was jsufficient for a conviction ...

Do you EVER believe that ANYONE is ever properly convicted of ANYTHING?

 

[zArk]

He was convicted by a jury in court, with a full defence. I think it is reasonable to assume there was jsufficient for a conviction ...

Guardian
Abu Mansha, 21, was found guilty at Southwark crown court of possessing information likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism.

He had Corporal Mark Byles address -- which he got from where, and this is classic

He said he was helping a journalist friend.

What? A guy with a 69 IQ helping a journalist friend?

Police raided his flat and found a replica gun along with anti-western DVDs

holy fuck, what the fuck are anti-western dvds?

Documentaries showing Yule and Clint were gay?

His fingerprints were found on the newspaper article about Cpl Byles, but he said most of the items found in his flat were for research purposes only.

Oh dear, i am going away for a long time. I touch newspapers all the time and i even touched a copy of Mein Kampf -- 40 years

"extremely distasteful and virulent" anti-western DVDs, the court heard. These featured Osama bin Laden, the beheading of British hostage Ken Bigley, Iraqi rebels attacking allied troops, and calls for Muslims to take part in a holy war following the allied attack on the city of Fallujah.

I have one documentary which encompasses all those features. --life in gaol.

omg omg omg

This guy is clearly fucking retarded [sorry non-pc language], he is a fucking n00b. He probably did have the idea to kill Byles but does that mean it was terrorism?
If i think that writing a dissertation about co-indicence will bring down the Monarchy, can i be convicted of terrorism?
Does the logic follow?

 

[TAE]

He was convicted by a jury in court, with a full defence. I think it is reasonable to assume there was jsufficient for a conviction ...

That does not answer my question - you can 'assume' anything you want. I can 'assume' that there wasn't. I asked if anyone KNOWS of any other evidence.

Nor does it address the idiocy of a law which states that "having something a terrorist might find useful" is a crime for some but not for others.

Do you EVER believe that ANYONE is ever properly convicted of ANYTHING?

Of course, for instance the drug dealers who abused those two girls in Reading and killed one of them.

 

[detective-boy]

Of course, for instance the drug dealers who abused those two girls in Reading and killed one of them.

So why do you trust that jury (seeing as the case was fought hard by the defence) and not the other one?

Just because evidence has not appeared in the media does not mean it does not exist. If you want to know what the jury knew, go and sit in the public gallery. The vast, vast majority of criminal cases (even terrorist related ones) are tried in public. Very little is ever heard in camera.

You can make a valid argument that it should NOT be an offence to possess information likely to be of use to terrorists (the charge requires a little more than that to prove it) but do not confuse that position with an argument that someone should not have been convicted because YOU don't happen to know the evidence.

In my experience, juries are a very good bulwark against the State convicting on weak evidence. If there is a bias, it is very much in favour of the defendant.

 

[TAE]

For crying out loud - what did I ask?

"DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ANY OTHER EVIDENCE?"

 

[detective-boy]

You are right about the need to maintain public confidence. The police DO know that. They use consultative groups, advisors and community contacts far more than they did, certainly in relation to "mainstream" crime. A "Community Impact Assessment" forms part of all operational planning.

I suspect that there is still some reluctance to use these measures in relation to terrorism matters - some of this can probably be justified but some of it is probably unfounded. I think they could probably do better. If there had been a thorough Community Impact Assessment and associated strategy, I would have expected comments such as those made by AC Hayman to have been made within hours, not days, probably fronted through a local senior officer working closely with community contacts for who a briefing was held after the event even if a pre-event briefing was not considered possible (as it may well not have been for obvious security reasons). Hopefully this incident will inform that learning.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5128606.stm

From what I just heard of Andy Hayman's report to the Met Police Authority just now, it looks like it has! Pity they are ten years behind their colleagues in the "normal" crime world of murder investigation ...

And it seems only 35 officers in total went into the two houses - that included firearms officers and CBRN trained officers as well as the usual search teams and exhibits officers.

 

[Backatcha Bandit]

*Bump*

Interesting story apparently submitted for publication in the Sunday Times (19th?) regarding what prompted this raid in the first place.

http://cryptome.org/mi-forest-gate.htm

It has been submitted to my editor for this weekends Sunday Times for obvious reasons they do not want this information out there and I have been asked to remove the names from it which I refuse to do. Either they print the names or they dont publish it as far as Im concerned.

I won't quote the article itself to avoid any legal complications, but if anyone is in the habit of 'Taking the Times' on a Sunday, it'd be good to know if it does appear.

 

[detective-boy]

There was clearly something very wrong with the information behind this operation - it would have to have been very strong to merit the actions taken and yet it was obviously very weak / wrong as it seems to have resulted in absolutely no trace of anything so far as anyone is aware.

The circumstances in the story would fit this bill ... but a quick bit of research on Google and at Companies House doesn't inspire confidence in it's accuracy ...