Police raid BBQ in helicopter

[upsidedownwalrus]

People being social, taking up seats, and not spending a lot of money, what a fucking disgrace.

These people are obviously scum, why can't they just spend £80 on a saturday night in shit pubs and clubs before landing out at 2am to get a kebab and kick off a fight. I'm not against foreigners coming to the UK but they must make an effort to fit in with the local culture, when in Rome.

Innit.

 

[detective-boy]

The police should just enforce existing laws...

They are: that well known New Labour, anti-terror legislation ... Section 63(2) Criminal Justice and Public Order Act ... er ... 1994.

(2) If, as respects any land in the open air, a police officer of at least the rank of superintendent reasonably believes that— .
(a) two or more persons are making preparations for the holding there of a gathering to which this section applies [100 or more, amplified music, likely to cause serious distress], .
(b) ten or more persons are waiting for such a gathering to begin there, or .
(c) ten or more persons are attending such a gathering which is in progress, .
he may give a direction that those persons and any other persons who come to prepare or wait for or to attend the gathering are to leave the land and remove any vehicles or other property which they have with them on the land.

That is the law that was no doubt being enforced. If the story is as the "victim" claims he should sue them for fucking up big time. But my money is very much on the fact that it isn't and he won't - he's bullshitting and the media (and some here) are swallowing it.

 

[detective-boy]

the balance of probabilities would indicate the latter.

Of course it would ... there is no way the media would report anything to suit their own need for a particular slant on the story or miss out even the most minor salient fact ...

How fucking naive are you?

 

[Divisive Cotton]

The guy was interviewed on the radio last night and he sounded quite innocent of any rave planning
The police inspector was interviewed too and he said that the reason they used a helicopter was because the landing pad was only a mile away and they asked the crew to "check it out" on the way home from another job

 

[detective-boy]

I'd be very curious as to just what legislation they used as grounds for moving the people on.

I'd be interested to hear what legislation they thought they were using.

How can anyone here not fucking know ... you've all been bleating about it since the old king died ...

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Well unless conspiracy to have a fucking party is illegal, he hadn't.

Like seriously even if it was a planned rave what the fuck is the problem and how the fuck does it necessitate police helicopters.

Because there are facts omitted from the story, is my guess.

 

[detective-boy]

Because there are facts omitted from the story, is my guess.

No, that can't possibly be the case because any fule kno that the media always provide entirely accurate, neutrally-presented reports, containing every possible fact known about an incident and with a clear and detailed explanation of the basis for any actions taken by any offcial body, relevant legislation, etc. ...

I think they're right, it can only mean one thing ...

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

No, that can't possibly be the case because any fule kno that the media always provide entirely accurate, neutrally-presented reports, containing every possible fact known about an incident and with a clear explanation of the basis for any actions taken by any offcial body ...

I think they're right, it can only mean one thing ...

It's a party of 15. Of course the cops will show up with helicopters. In a city of ten million, what else could there be to do?

 

[revol68]

No, that can't possibly be the case because any fule kno that the media always provide entirely accurate, neutrally-presented reports, containing every possible fact known about an incident and with a clear and detailed explanation of the basis for any actions taken by any offcial body, relevant legislation, etc. ...

I think they're right, it can only mean one thing ...

Yeah because the police never do absurd shit, clearly there must be more to this sotry because well if there wasn't you'd have to accept the fact the pigs were a bunch of pumped up cunts who need put in their fucking place, one of the nice things about the troubles was that the police didn't tend to make busy bodies of themselves over fuck all, apparently the threat of being shot gives them a greater sense of perspective.

Funny when the Police do something obviously fucking cuntish there is always the assumption that there must be more to it that would contextualise and justify their behaviour.

 

[revol68]

Because there are facts omitted from the story, is my guess.

and you base this assumption on a deeply grained apriori that the police would never be over the top heavy handed cunts.

they used drones on a bunch of daft druids at Stonehenge ffs.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

and you base this assumption on a deeply grained apriori that the police would never be over the top heavy handed cunts.

they used drones on a bunch of daft druids at Stonehenge ffs.

Nah, that's not it. They do stupid, fucked up things at times.

Actually, I probably shouldn't be answering. Our cops fuck up: they've actually fucked up quite a bit, lately. But there's a certain logic to their fuckups, that you can figure out. I can't really say with any certainty how your cops do things. Maybe they're running amok: I wouldn't know.

 

[revol68]

Nah, that's not it. They do stupid, fucked up things at times.

Actually, I probably shouldn't be answering. Our cops fuck up: they've actually fucked up quite a bit, lately. But there's a certain logic to their fuckups, that you can figure out. I can't really say with any certainty how your cops do things. Maybe they're running amok: I wouldn't know.

yes well in this country there has been a concerted effort to criminalise any sort of public gatherings or parties, or at least give the police powers to intervene at will.

Like I said Northern Ireland has been somewhat insulated from this ridiculous micro policing of everything due to the fact cops were more worried about lunch boxes with mercury tilt switches under their cars and armalite sights being trained on their heads, whilst in England the most they had to worry about was spraining their arm trying to crack a hippie round the head in the middle of a field.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

yes well in this country there has been a concerted effort to criminalise any sort of public gatherings or parties, or at least give the police powers to intervene at will..

I don't know that; maybe db has something to say about that, in counterpoint.

 

[revol68]

I don't know that; maybe db has something to say about that, in counterpoint.

He'll no doubt point out that the police don't make the laws simply enforce them, which whilst true doesn't absolve them form being the cunts who enforce them.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

He'll no doubt point out that the police don't make the laws simply enforce them, which whilst true doesn't absolve them form being the cunts who enforce them.

Cops don't make laws at all. That's not what they do.

 

[revol68]

Cops don't make laws at all. That's not what they do.

Why are you restating something I said as if I didn't say it?

Also don't be naive, the police play a major role in pushing for certain laws and have a lot of discretion in their enforcement.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Why are you restating something I said as if I didn't say it?

Also don't be naive, the police play a major role in pushing for certain laws and have a lot of discretion in their enforcement.

Maybe over there they do. Over here, if the cops had their way with legislation, guns would be outlawed, and drugs would be legal.

 

[revol68]

Maybe over there they do. Over here, if the cops had their way with legislation, guns would be outlawed, and drugs would be legal.

DId I say they get it all their own way or did I not suggest they simply had a major role in pushing for certain laws, especially ones to do with 'public order' and those that give them far reaching powers, of the type that can have a bbq on private land shut down.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

DId I say they get it all their own way or did I not suggest they simply had a major role in pushing for certain laws, especially ones to do with 'public order' and those that give them far reaching powers, of the type that can have a bbq on private land shut down.

Yes, you said 'major role'. I'm not sure where the line is drawn with that. Do they get their legislation, or not?

Laws here are still made by legislatures, and the cops have a voice, but it's not louder than that of others.

 

[TAE]

Oh I'm not so sure their voice is not louder than others'.

They are: that well known New Labour, anti-terror legislation ... Section 63(2) Criminal Justice and Public Order Act ... er ... 1994.

I remember protesting against that tory law. It was the fist time the thoughts of 'police state' seriously entered my mind.

Of course, at the time most people said something like "don't be silly, it will never be used against anything like a football supporters' BBQ party, even though the police could do so." - yeah it would be up to the police to decide what kind of 'party' was ok and what was not. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now. I think the law should be a lot clearer and yes the guy should think about taking the police to court.

However, you are guessing, and I'd like to know if anyone has concrete information.

Of course it would ... there is no way the media would report anything to suit their own need for a particular slant on the story or miss out even the most minor salient fact ...

How fucking naive are you?

Nore would the police ever do such a thing.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Indeed. I suspect that there is a lot more to this story than meets the eye ... and the police acknowledge that they closed it before it could even get started as if they'd let it actually become a problem they wouldn't have been able to without far more issues. Doesn't sound like your average birthday barbie to me ...

Why not just start shooting babies so they don't grow up to be bank robbers?

 

[gentlegreen]

Hopefully no one in future will be daft enough to advertise on Farcebook.

 

[SpookyFrank]

The Devon police are on alert in the summer for such events. There are often all night barbecues on some beaches with sound systems and attended by hundreds of people. Sometimes these beach parties are organised by or for the groups of foreign English Language students. These students are not popular with many locals because they go around in big groups filling up the buses and sitting around not spending much money. They are teenagers looking for fun on a tight budget. Some of the locals complain a lot and it gets reported in the newspaper, picked up by the local authority and presented to the police as a problem.

As a Devon lad myself I've seen little evidence of this sort of behaviour tbh. We used to have all night barbecues/beach parties but they rarely ran to more than a few dozen people and were more likely to feature acoustic instruments than sound systems. The bigger outdoor parties are generally miles from anywhere.

 

[DexterTCN]

I'd be checking to see if the police got a big wad of overtime payments for this and examining the costs to the public purse.

It's a fucking joke and no-one's laughing.

When my son was 5 (over 15 years ago) he was sitting by the road playing with a little tonka truck in the flowers and bushes. You know, filling it with little bits of dirt and moving the dirt 24 inches and making holes/piles and then filling them back in.

A police car stopped, put his flashing lights on, got out, straightened his jacket and walked up to my son. I jogged over and asked if there was a problem. Apparently my son was damaging council property and he would have to move.

No, I explained, he's playing with his digger, he wasn't damaging anything he was just moving the dirt about with his tonka...as wee boys do.

The ossifer fixed me with his stare and said I could be arrested also!

I looked up at his car....oh my...he was on his own? I looked around. Yup, he certainly was. My son continued to play, moving the dirt and making engine-like noises. He had an action man as well, that I hadn't noticed.

I took a couple of steps forward, I was now 4 metres from the jacket-straightener and he was about 15 metres from his car. I fixed him back with my stare and said 'Go on then.' He didn't appear to have a radio on him. I dropped my shoulders and adjusted my weight. He went back up the slope, got in his car and went away.

My son, who I love very much, grabbed his action man and bounced it up and down towards the tonka, thumped it into the back and pushed the tonka around the bushes. He looked up and smiled at me.

Not totally on topic but not really off topic either.

 

[DexterTCN]

YouTube video of one of the party-goers being breathalysed.

 

[Red Horse]

i thought you might have something more to say on the subject.

Why?

 

[Guineveretoo]

I think we could wait and see how this story develops. If the police were in the wrong, a case will be surely be taken out against them, supported by the local media, if nothing else!

 

[Jonti]

It won't be "feelings" and it won't simply be the fact that it was advertised on the internet (though that may well be part of it, especially if it was advertised as a public event). There will be some objective grounds to suspect it was not what it is being alleged to have been intended as by the "victim". If there weren't, then the police will get sued ... didn't notice anywhere the "victim" mentioning that he was going to wander off down Messrs Sue, Grabbit and Runne ...

So you say. You must have access to some revealed truth that ordinary mortals do not, for this is what the cops actually said ...

In this occasion, we were extremely concerned how the event had been advertised on the Internet as an all-night party and it was therefore necessary to take the appropriate steps to stop the event.

I was responding to what the police said. They said their "concerns" made it "necessary" for them to act; but I do not see any proper justification for their feelings of "concern". They may as well have said "we are concerned you'll be naughty, so it is necessary to arrest you and torture you to prevent that".

Now this maybe hopelessly muddled thinking and inept PR, rather than operational incompetence as such. I don't know; and neither do you. We can only go on what the police actually said in justification of the raid. What is clear is that your eager defence of the apparently arbitrary police action relies on your own unsubstantiated assertions and untested hypotheses.

I'm at a loss to understand the point of such posturing, unless it is simply to muddy the waters

 

[Guineveretoo]

So you say. You must have access to some revealed truth that ordinary mortals do not, for this is what the cops actually said ...I was responding to what the police said. They said their "concerns" made it "necessary" for them to act; but I do not see any proper justification for their feelings of "concern". They may as well have said "we are concerned you'll be naughty, so it is necessary to arrest you and torture you to prevent that".

Now this maybe hopelessly muddled thinking and inept PR, rather than operational incompetence as such. I don't know; and neither do you. We can only go on what the police actually said in justification of the raid. What is clear is that your eager defence of the apparently arbitrary police action relies on your own unsubstantiated assertions and untested hypotheses.

I'm at a loss to understand the point of such posturing, unless it is simply to muddy the waters

But they didn't say that advertising on facebook was the only reason they busted it, did they? If that had been the only reason, they would be very busy raiding events all over the country. You seem to be simply attacking db for nothing, rather than looking at what he actually wrote and, in doing so, are probably doing pretty much what you accuse him of, and defending your own prejudices!

There is more to this than we are seeing, and I, for one, want to reserve judgement until I find out more, although I acknowledge that, on the face of it, even if they had legitimate "concerns", they were far too heavy handed and it was inappropriate to break up a party before they had even got started. I don't like the thought that this could be a developing trend.

 

[Jonti]

No, I'm not.

I responded to the police statement, sticking rigourously to what they said. In response to me, db came up with a mixture of unsubstantiated assertions and his own theories.

See the difference?