Police plans for Solstice

[detective-boy]

I wonder though, does that not (at least logically) cut both ways? If as in this case the planned police intervention is, by any reasonable assessment, likely to increase the risk to life and limb ...

You would never prove that a properly planned and executed police intervention increased risk to life and limb, certainly not on the basis that you appear to be suggesting, namely that they would be resisted by those intent on continuing to break the law and offering unlawful physical resistance to a lawful police intervention.

Unlawful action, improperly planned action, disproportionate action, yes., any or all of those could sustain such an argument ... but that is not what is being discussed.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Yeah, that's why I inserted the qualification 'logically' (as opposed to 'under the UK criminal justice system')

 

[detective-boy]

Like they do at Glastonbury where 150,000 people have been getting totally off their heads for the last 20 years with barely any trouble at all.

A classic example of the usual police response to these sorts of events - the vast, vast majority pass off without any problem and those that do kick off can usually be traced back to someone or something which is taking the piss / causing more of a problem for other people than the norm.

EVERY police operation involves careful planning and interventions are only intended to be made when there is a reason for which the intervention is proportionate. Unfortunately, sometimes individual junior officers act disproportionately or respond inappropriately to an immediate situation developing in their area of the event which leads to things degenerating. (The same could also be said, however, of individuals at the event, who sometimes over react to things that are happening, or who act disproportionately in trying to push the police back or something, which leads to the police having to respond).

 

[detective-boy]

the police will be using drugs sniffer dogs on the entrance

If that is true, it is absolutely unnecessary in my opinion - likely to provoke confrontation far in excess of likelihood of detecting any significant criminal offence.

(And entirely consistent with the Chief Constable's rumoured view that he wants more arrests - he would certainly see lots of detected personal use cannabis offences as "success" He had a famous zero tolerance approach when in Brixton (e.g. arresting a cannabis dealer himself http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/drug-dealer-tried-to-sell-to-police-chief-643297.html ... it turned out the "drug" was some herb or other if I recall. ).

 

[detective-boy]

Yeah, that's why I inserted the qualification 'logically' (as opposed to 'under the UK criminal justice system')

I'm not sure you could even sustain it logically - the police are there to protect the interests of others and so anything which represented a significant threat to (e.g.) the stones or the land (which are a national monument) would be a reasonable basis for an intervention (provided that intervention was reasonably planned - no intervention that would inevitably increase dangers overall could be justified).

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Sure but the concern here, given the CC's previous statements about 'zero tolerance' and so on, is that the norms for policing these events are not going to be followed in this case. It's all very well to say 'no G20 style policing' but the indications are that a different and more aggressive, in terms of seeking drugs arrests and so on, approach is going to be used here.

Common sense suggests that the risk of confrontation is therefore increased.

 

[detective-boy]

Sure but the concern here, given the CC's previous statements about 'zero tolerance' and so on, is that the norms for policing these events are not going to be followed in this case.

That is the case now (the information from free spirit about the intended deployment of drug sniffer dogs at the entrances changes significantly what was originally posted).

(However, I stick by my original post that there was nothing in the initial reports (other than the simple fact that the Chief Constable happened to be Brian Moore) to suggest anything was actually going to be very much different.)

 

[rocketman]

The UK has had forty years of free love and "radical" values: lots of teenage pregnancy and unstable families are its result. These so-called radical values are mainstream yet their supporters still see themselves as rebels.

What happens if this chaotic party goes bad and people are injured? -- especially likely if booze and other drugs are circulating. As well as the people hurt, the police get the blame. They might even be responsible in law for failing to act, I don't know, ask a lawyer.

How would you suggest the police act?

Oh yeah, I forgot the accountants run our schools. I can't even engage in arguing against such blatant toss.

 

[Tank Girl]

see above (2nd hand info, but info from the meeting)

cheers! I forgot to speak to him

 

[xes]

well, I hope it all went off without a hitch, and I hope the filth kept their hands to themselves.

Happy Solstice

 

[CyberRose]

Don't understand this solstice bollocks, I mean surely all days are the same length aren't they? Silly druids and their rejection of modern science, why don't they piss off to some Utah creationist museum?! (Just swap God for a piece of mistletoe!)

 

[Mooncat]

Don't understand this solstice bollocks, I mean surely all days are the same length aren't they?

Its the amount of actual daylight that's the longest

 

[CyberRose]

Its the amount of actual daylight that's the longest

How do they know it's not gonna be cloudy?

 

[Mooncat]

How do they know it's not gonna be cloudy?

They sacrifice a goat

 

[CyberRose]

They sacrifice a goat

Nah that's what a proper druid would do in ye olden days, nowadays they're soft vegan muppets who would probably cry if a goat died!

 

[Mooncat]

Nah that's what a proper druid would do in ye olden days, nowadays they're soft vegan muppets who would probably cry if a goat died!

No - it really is a goat. Have you tried reading the entrails of a nut-cutlet?

 

[Hocus Eye.]

It was cloudy according to all reports. Perhaps they should have sacrificed a goat after all. At least they could have made a curry with it.

 

[Awesome Wells]

yes let's police and monitor the use of ancient natural herbs with medicinal qualities at an ancient and natural site by people who practise ancient and natural beliefs.

clearly these vile intransigents should be stomped on.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Jesus, 37,000 people. I'm sure it was about a third of that when i went.

They're going to start charging to get in soon

 

[Awesome Wells]

well Stonehenge is where a man is a man and the children dance to the pipes of pan.
where the dedrops glisten and the cat's meow.

let me take you there, i will show you how.

 

[smokedout]

well, I hope it all went off without a hitch, and I hope the filth kept their hands to themselves.

Happy Solstice

usual practice is to wait until the middle class weekender kids have gone home and then start laying into travellers away from prying eyes

 

[gosub]

Jeremy Clarksons column in Sunday Times , no honestly!

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Just love the respect being shown to the forces of law and order by the citizens who chose to comment on that article ...

 

[david dissadent]

Just love the respect being shown to the forces of law and order by the citizens who chose to comment on that article ...

Senior police officers have allowed their forces to become part of the paranoid security aparatus and also the penickity prying tabloid friendly aspects of the governments policies. It all connects together to distance the police from the people, where they are less constables, citizens in uniform with a duty to keep the peace and more an extention of the home office.

The anti terror stop and searches at London train stations that surely few believe do anything to stop terrorism, the petty laws on public drinking, the hyper agressive policing of climate demonstrators, the media hype surrounding anti terror arrest that end without charges, tasers and beureucratic targets.

It creates a dripping resentment of the police within parts of society that are generaly supportive of them. But they are part of a wider matrix of laws, policies and enforcement that leave people feeling increasingly hemmed in, monitored and controlled.

Clarkson and his readers probibly deeply resent having their number plates read and monitored everywhere they go. They are showing some faint solidarity with a bunch of silly hippies because they feel the same pressures on them.

 

[detective-boy]

Glad to see that the pre-event predictions of a major assault by the police, mass arrests, individual screening/sniffing/searching of everyone entering for the merest hint of drugs, etc. resulted in thousands of arrests ...

... oh, sorry - it appears that it didn't and the policing was pretty low-key and pretty much as usual ...

... the police made only 37 arrests, mostly for minor public order offences.

How come there haven't been a load of apologies from the paranoid fools posting earlier for misleading people and whipping up unnecessary hysteria ...

 

[Dan U]

Glad to see that the pre-event predictions of a major assault by the police, mass arrests, individual screening/sniffing/searching of everyone entering for the merest hint of drugs, etc. resulted in thousands of arrests ...

... oh, sorry - it appears that it didn't and the policing was pretty low-key and pretty much as usual ...



How come there haven't been a load of apologies from the paranoid fools posting earlier for misleading people and whipping up unnecessary hysteria ...

Speaking to people who went it was a lot more oppressive atomosphere than previous years with significant amounts of searches and sniffer dogs and vehicle stops plus the stupid drone.

so it wasn't low key or as usual at all, just didn't kick off (which is obviously good)

 

[xes]

Glad to see that the pre-event predictions of a major assault by the police, mass arrests, individual screening/sniffing/searching of everyone entering for the merest hint of drugs, etc. resulted in thousands of arrests ...

... oh, sorry - it appears that it didn't and the policing was pretty low-key and pretty much as usual ...



How come there haven't been a load of apologies from the paranoid fools posting earlier for misleading people and whipping up unnecessary hysteria ...

I'm not going to appologise for hating the police and for not trusting them at all. Because I do, and I don't.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Got a horrible story about a friend and the Solstice

They were driving home (his missus was driving). She hadn't caned it, just a few beers, and then six hours sleep in the car before leaving.

On the way, their clutch broke. Pulled over and called the RAC.

RAC came, and noticed that one of their friends had passed out on the grass at the side of the road. RAC person then kindly called the police and ambulance. Police breath-tested my friend's missus, who was 0.5 over the limit, despite having had six hours sleep.

The police impounded their car and she's in court this week, probably going to lose her licence.



Cunts.

 

[detective-boy]

Cunts.

So you agree with drink driving then?

And if you're suggesting that because it was just over, they should have let her off there is already a gap between the actual limit and the prosecution level so she would be significantly over the actual limit even if only just over the prosecution level.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

It just seems ridiculously harsh and unfortunate. She'd had six hours of sleep for heaven's sake, and was clearly not drunk in any way.