Police! Lights! Action! Brixton-style

[ringo]

As mentioned in a previous thread, the heavily pregnant Mrs Ringo was assaulted by a nutter on the corner of Denmark Road and Paulet Road on Saturday. He was seen running into Thorlands Estate.

They now tell us the cctv camera directly above the scene of the assault was pointing the wrong way and they didn't see him. He cam down Denmark Road from Myatts Field Park, then continued down that road. How can they not have anything?

Thorlands came through with the less than surprising news that none of the cameras on the estate are working.

cctv nation? Not down in the ghetto.

In other news, three times in the last 10 days I've seen police searching black youths on the corner of Brixton Road and Vassal Road.

 

[editor]

I'm getting bored with all this agrro. In the last five mins: women started fighting in the street. Blokes start hitting women. People getting out of cars, Cops try and sort it out, cop van hit by bottles thrown by the local yoot = mayhem on Coldharbour Lane.

 

[colacubes]

I'm getting bored with all this agrro. In the last five mins: women started fighting in the street. Blokes start hitting women. People getting out of cars, Cops try and sort it out, cop van hit by bottles thrown by the local yoot = mayhem on Coldharbour Lane.

It's fighty central out there today. Think the weather's getting to people

 

[netbob]

In other news, I just noticed "The Beat" has had a paint job and a rebranding. It's now "Metropolitan Police, Brixton Ward" (Brixton Ward doesn't exist, but hey ...). Staffed by cops on bikes it seems.

 

[editor]

Pub perhaps?

 

[netbob]

I say just I meant earlier. but yes, pub. 30 minutes?

 

[King of Prussia]

I say just I meant earlier. but yes, pub. 30 minutes?

Pardon?

 

[editor]

On my way (if I can avoid the flying bottles)!

 

[tufty79]

the top bit's bottle free at the moment.
have a safe journey out of your bit though

 

[Pickman's model]

aplos for o/topic reply, but

Right. First thing is this. Lambeth aren't able to list the CCTV coverage that they are paying for. They don't know all the firms doing it, they don't know what happens with the cameras, they can't say what results it is producing. In fact there is no monitoring to speak of at all. This is not a political issue. It's been the case pretty much all along. Before anyone tries to turn it into a party political issue. The problem here is council officers.

Secondly the police view is that the pictures are rarely any use as evidence in court. They simply aren't good enough quality to show much more than that an incident happened. In order for anyone to be prosecuted as a result of CCTV coverage the police have to be notified by the CCTV operators as an incident starts. Then they can be there in time to identify culprits. This pretty much means the CCTV coverage has to be able to be piped straight through to the police. Guess what. That generally isn't possible in Lambeth.

1) "lambeth aren't able to list the cctv coverage they're paying for" except they do have this handy list of where their static cameras
are: http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/TransportStreets/Parking/LocationCCTVCamerasLambeth.htm

2) "the police view is that the pictures are rarely any use as evidence in court"
perhaps you should pay more attention to 'lambeth life', which, back in may 2007 had an article about the police operation javelin initiative, which - under dci mick neville - seeks to turn cctv into a source of forensics. this is the mick neville who spoke out last year about the poor quality of cctv. the point here is that cctv is not, and cannot be, something which allows an instant or even timely police response due to the number of cameras local authority schemes operate. it is instead a source of intelligence and evidence. as mick neville pointed out in an issue of 'cctv image' from last year.

lambeth life article in this issue:
http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/304B396C-71A4-4A27-8544-140E6D36F9DB/0/LLifeMay2007.pdf
cctv image article about viido on p18 in:
http://www.cctvmedia.co.uk/Magazine_Production/CCTV_Image_May_issue1.pdf

3) police forces generally cannot afford much cctv coverage. rather, they piggy-back on local authority schemes. every borough has a police liaison officer stationed in the control room. so it's utter bollocks to say that cctv has to be piped straight through to the police. they do not have the capacity or trained staff to manage that!

4) you say there is no monitoring to speak of. yet there's a central control room on shakespear road:
http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/moderngov/(S(ixxvj0awumnsvgasq3hqyjbr))/mgIssueHistoryHome.aspx?IId=16018
& the contract for monitoring was awarded to legion group plc a couple of years back.

finally, i would be interested to know from where you cobbled together the information for your seemingly entirely uninformed post.

 

[berniedicters]

It's fighty central out there today. Think the weather's getting to people

I thought of Brixton when I heard some Tory MP on the radio this morning suggesting that people might riot in outrage at some government policy or other. I suspect that if we do get a Long Hot Summer, it might well turn into 1981 all over again - credit crunch, high unemployment, lot of BNP/NF stuff simmering under the surface - plus some hot, muggy weather...and this MP's sussed that and thought it might be smart to put his marker down so he can say "There ya go, Gordon - riots, just as I predicted; clearly my prediction as the reason must therefore be true. So it's your fault."

I hope Brixton doesn't get it again - I remember 1981 and going through both Brixton and Moss Side some time afterwards, when both places were pretty obviously still bearing the scars of the riots, and it wasn't nice.

 

[ericjarvis]

aplos for o/topic reply, but1) "lambeth aren't able to list the cctv coverage they're paying for" except they do have this handy list of where their static cameras
are: http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/TransportStreets/Parking/LocationCCTVCamerasLambeth.htm

That is a list of the directly run static cameras monitoring traffic. That's a fraction of the CCTV cameras that Lambeth pay for directly and indirectly.

2) "the police view is that the pictures are rarely any use as evidence in court"
perhaps you should pay more attention to 'lambeth life', which, back in may 2007 had an article about the police operation javelin initiative, which - under dci mick neville - seeks to turn cctv into a source of forensics. this is the mick neville who spoke out last year about the poor quality of cctv. the point here is that cctv is not, and cannot be, something which allows an instant or even timely police response due to the number of cameras local authority schemes operate. it is instead a source of intelligence and evidence. as mick neville pointed out in an issue of 'cctv image' from last year.

lambeth life article in this issue:
http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/304B396C-71A4-4A27-8544-140E6D36F9DB/0/LLifeMay2007.pdf
cctv image article about viido on p18 in:
http://www.cctvmedia.co.uk/Magazine_Production/CCTV_Image_May_issue1.pdf

As those links show there are serious issues regarding the use of CCTV pictures in court. Ranging from image quality through to the ability of the court to replay the images. DCI Neville is a specialist in the forensic use of CCTV footage. He has a vested interest in playing up that aspect of its use. Others within the police seem to be far less focused on it. The industry itself seems to be clearly aware that there are serious differences between what is promised about CCTV surveillance, and what it actually offers. I shall wait to see what VIIDO does in Lambeth before forming an opinion on what the future holds. At present I don't see that you've shown me anything that even remotely changes my opinion.

3) police forces generally cannot afford much cctv coverage. rather, they piggy-back on local authority schemes. every borough has a police liaison officer stationed in the control room. so it's utter bollocks to say that cctv has to be piped straight through to the police. they do not have the capacity or trained staff to manage that!

Nonsense. The private and semi-private companies dealing with CCTV should be able to monitor their own coverage and then send relevant coverage to the police when they spot incidents developing. Of course that would mean the CCTV companies actually monitoring their cameras, as in many cases they are paid to do. At present, as I understand it, even where the cameras are monitored, often there is no established method of providing live footage to the police.

4) you say there is no monitoring to speak of. yet there's a central control room on shakespear road:
http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/moderngov/(S(ixxvj0awumnsvgasq3hqyjbr))/mgIssueHistoryHome.aspx?IId=16018
& the contract for monitoring was awarded to legion group plc a couple of years back.

That's only Lambeth's directly run cameras IIRC. A fraction of the CCTV cameras paid for by Lambeth council tax payers/

finally, i would be interested to know from where you cobbled together the information for your seemingly entirely uninformed post.

The neighbourhood police liaison committee, an Inspector at Brixton nick, a couple of members of the local neighbourhood police squad, the local CCTV management committee, a CCTV operator, two directors of a CCTV operating company, and a senior Lambeth Council officer. Not to mention a lot of rumour from unhappy Lambeth residents, the vast majority of which really is total tosh, but which is important in that it shows how much the residents feel the system is currently failing them.

I would check your own sources. If you rely too much on limited sources you'll get a limited picture. There's a lot more to CCTV coverage in Lambeth than the relatively few cameras the council operate directly.

 

[Pickman's model]

have you checked the council's (draft) cctv plan? http://tinyurl.com/l93wa3

 

[toblerone3]

Right. First thing is this. Lambeth aren't able to list the CCTV coverage that they are paying for. They don't know all the firms doing it, they don't know what happens with the cameras, they can't say what results it is producing. In fact there is no monitoring to speak of at all. This is not a political issue. It's been the case pretty much all along. Before anyone tries to turn it into a party political issue. The problem here is council officers.

Secondly the police view is that the pictures are rarely any use as evidence in court. They simply aren't good enough quality to show much more than that an incident happened. In order for anyone to be prosecuted as a result of CCTV coverage the police have to be notified by the CCTV operators as an incident starts. Then they can be there in time to identify culprits. This pretty much means the CCTV coverage has to be able to be piped straight through to the police. Guess what. That generally isn't possible in Lambeth.

From the little that I know about Lambeth's CCTV performance management system this doesn'tn surprise me.

 

[toblerone3]

aplos for o/topic reply, but1) "lambeth aren't able to list the cctv coverage they're paying for" except they do have this handy list of where their static cameras
are: http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/TransportStreets/Parking/LocationCCTVCamerasLambeth.htm

There are many, many more cameras than that. That list is probably less than 10% of them!!

 

[Pickman's model]

There are many, many more cameras than that. That list is probably less than 10% of them!!

static cameras which are part of the local authority network *should* have signs identifying them as such. given what's been said by ericjarvis, i'm going to be putting in a couple of foi requests later today, in an effort to shed some light on this.

 

[ericjarvis]

have you checked the council's (draft) cctv plan? http://tinyurl.com/l93wa3

Thanks for posting that. It's dead useful, and at least shows somebody in Lambeth has the same concerns we have here. I wouldn't suggest for one second that Lambeth aren't trying to move in the right direction with CCTV, just that the current situation is that a lot of money is being spent very ineffectively, and that to a large extent the public aren't aware of why.

 

[ericjarvis]

static cameras which are part of the local authority network *should* have signs identifying them as such. given what's been said by ericjarvis, i'm going to be putting in a couple of foi requests later today, in an effort to shed some light on this.

The problem is that Lambeth fund CCTV coverage through a range of agencies. I'm concerned that the one here on Angell Town is nigh on as bad as that in Vassall. This may be a situation repeated in other places around the borough. Lambeth funded a lot of this being set up, but doesn't appear to have done anything much in terms of monitoring the performance of anything it doesn't run directly.

 

[Pickman's model]

Thanks for posting that. It's dead useful, and at least shows somebody in Lambeth has the same concerns we have here. I wouldn't suggest for one second that Lambeth aren't trying to move in the right direction with CCTV, just that the current situation is that a lot of money is being spent very ineffectively, and that to a large extent the public aren't aware of why.

not having the dubious privilege of being a lambethite - i live in the democratic republic of hackney - i wonder, do you have an executive mayor like we do - and if so, who's your equivalent of jules pipe?

 

[Bob]

not having the dubious privilege of being a lambethite - i live in the democratic republic of hackney - i wonder, do you have an executive mayor like we do - and if so, who's your equivalent of jules pipe?

Nope. It's the traditional council system here. Leader of the council is Steve Reed.

 

[Missez]

My son went out to get me some milk at the Tesco in Tulse Hill yesterday and witnessed a police car chase ending with the armed police arresting some one at gun point.

Must have been some dangerous person from the sound of what happened.

 

[pboi]

bloody hell

 

[MrSki]

Gun shots fired in St lawrence Place of Loughborough Road on Saturday night.

police with machine guns & sniffer dogs there till early Sunday morning.

 

[editor]

Blimey. There's cops, plastic cops and cops with dogs literally surrounding the block!

 

[ajdown]

Blimey. There's cops, plastic cops and cops with dogs literally surrounding the block!

Just go outside with your hands up and surrender. Everything will be ok

 

[el-ahrairah]

It's seemed so peaceful and chilled out recent too!

 

[editor]

Ton of police busting some folks on Coldharbour Lane right now, outside the Barrier Block.

 

[ajdown]

Any idea what for?

 

[TONYSW9]

how about an undercover police buy some crack with radioactive money and just use a geiger counter to track down the big dealer,plutonium paint should do it.

 

[banglo-saxon]

The Tesco express in Brixton Road near the main sorting office in Wynne road is cordonned off. Police on site. Something defo went off in there.