Plug sockets in bathrooms - is the UK being overly paranoid?

[Hocus Eye.]

You have a telly and radio in your bathroom?

I have a live wire hanging out the side of the wall in mine, (just behind the bathers head too!!) I don't have a clue what it's for ()it's green and yellow striped) but I tried to cut it off with a pair of pliers and got electrocuted so I've left it where it is for now.

Zenie if that earth wire really is live, you have a problem somewhere else in your system. Get it checked soonest.

Gentlegreen, if you are immune to electricity then you must be a different life-form from the rest of us earth people.

 

[Poi E]

Yep. 110 gives you a little tickle, as might be dispensed by a skirt-wearing pansy in silk gloves, whereas 240 slugs you in the face with 2 snooker balls in a sock. ish.

but it's them pesky amps that will stop your heart, and I think they're pretty similar in the UK and the US.

Generally, the UK is extremely safety conscious, and I think that this is just an extension of that.

 

[EastEnder]

but it's them pesky amps that will stop your heart, and I think they're pretty similar in the UK and the US.

Not so... US amps are poorly constructed from inferior materials, they don't have the same "quality feel" as UK amps.

Their volts aren't much better either....

 

[Poi E]

Not so... US amps are poorly constructed from inferior materials, they don't have the same "quality feel" as UK amps.
:

But actually the reverse is (or used tobe) true...at least for home audio

 

[zenie]

green and yellow is Earth, and it should not (normally) have any electricity in it at all!

Maybe I got the colour wrong I'll have a look later

Sounds similar to b/f's flat when someone tried to put a shower over bath

Maybe, or some kind of heater wired to the mains

Get an electrician in. Now.

Zenie if that earth wire really is live, you have a problem somewhere else in your system. Get it checked soonest.

It's been there 7 years minimum but I'll have a look later and give someone a call.

 

[Crispy]

What's wrong with separate taps? I really don't understand what the problem is

Lever mixer tap is good. Being able to use it one handed is useful. As is being able to set the right temperature point then turn it on and off at that temperature. However, they're a bugger to repair...

 

[berniedicters]

Not so... US amps are poorly constructed from inferior materials, they don't have the same "quality feel" as UK amps.

Their volts aren't much better either....

Yeah, what he said.

But yer amps are dependent on yer volts and yer resistance. So given identical human beings, bathrooms, wetness of hands, proximity of cables, etc., yer British victim will get twice the amps that yer American one will. So - in terms of the sort of power that kills people - it is a direct relation between voltage and likelihood of deadedness.

 

[Poi E]

Yeah, what he said.

But yer amps are dependent on yer volts and yer resistance. So given identical human beings, bathrooms, wetness of hands, proximity of cables, etc., yer British victim will get twice the amps that yer American one will. So - in terms of the sort of power that kills people - it is a direct relation between voltage and likelihood of deadedness.

I know that watts=volts X amps, yah? But I don't get how simply delivering twice the voltage will also result in twice the amperage at a given maximum wattage.

edit: ahh thanks wiki. Higher volts will actually causes greater delivery of the amps through the body, and them buggers is what will kill you.

 

[gentlegreen]

Gentlegreen, if you are immune to electricity then you must be a different life-form from the rest of us earth people.

I was being sarcarstic, but three memorable adolescent shocks were :-

1. the time I sat on my bed and absent-mindedly bared the end of a plugged-in mains cable with my teeth (in a house with no RCD) - it must only have been the neutral because I didn't die, or lose a chunk of my tongue.

2. the time I had an earthed steel chassis on my lap while poking around inside my DIY sound to light unit.

3. touched the anode cap of the line output valve in a TV - burned a neat hole right the way through my nail....

 

[Reno]

What's wrong with separate taps? I really don't understand what the problem is

Mixer taps are more convenient and hygenic and you get to wash the soap off in one go. It's progress and there is a good reason why everywhere in the US and the EU they have them. I suppose if you aren't used to them then you don't know the difference, but I miss them. I especially hate two taps in public toilets/bathrooms where there generally isn't a plug.

 

[Herbsman.]

Why do you need mixer taps in the first place? Use a plug

What's wrong with separate taps? I really don't understand what the problem is

Maybe not a problem in the bathroom but in the kitchen they're a boon. No-one wants to take the washing up bowl and then fill a huge sink just to wash their hands...

 

[berniedicters]

I know that watts=volts X amps, yah? But I don't get how simply delivering twice the voltage will also result in twice the amperage at a given maximum wattage.

Forget watts, they're not really relevant unless we're talking about electrical burns.

What you want is Ohm's Law, which says:

V = I * R

Where V is voltage, I is current, and R is resistance. For the purposes of this discussion, we rearrange it thus:

I = V / R

that is, current flow (in amps) is equal to the voltage divided by the resistance.

Generalising furiously, that is the situation in all practical circumstances - the current flow is effectively determined by the potential difference (voltage) and the resistance through which is is passing. Up the voltage, and the current will increase; up the resistance and the current will decrease.

When we talk about circuits having a certain current rating, we're talking about the MAXIMUM current that can/should flow.

Where confusion can arise is that power supplies (or, if you want to be picky, power supply systems, including distribution networks) have a maximum current they can supply. In terms of domestic mains electricity, that maximum is effectively infinite (unless you live at the far end of a long low-voltage power line), but it is a characteristic of all power supplies that, as the load (resistance) across them decreases (thereby demanding more current through them), the voltage at the terminals will also drop, effectively limiting the current the supply can deliver.

I hope that makes it a bit clearer...

 

[berniedicters]

I was being sarcarstic, but three memorable adolescent shocks were :-

1. the time I sat on my bed and absent-mindedly bared the end of a plugged-in mains cable with my teeth (in a house with no RCD) - it must only have been the neutral because I didn't die, or lose a chunk of my tongue.

2. the time I had an earthed steel chassis on my lap while poking around inside my DIY sound to light unit.

3. touched the anode cap of the line output valve in a TV - burned a neat hole right the way through my nail....

Mains shocks (ignoring no 3 for a moment ) are very much survivable.

If you're dry, not providing a good path to earth, and not putting yourself ACROSS the supply (eg by having an earthed steel chassis on your lap while poking around inside a DIY sound to light unit), the worst you'll get is a nasty belt.

Hence the paranoia about electricity in bathrooms, where there are usually lots of lovely shiny coppery earthed pipes, means of getting wet, and a lack of nice insulating clothing.

No 3 is a good case in point about the maximum current delivery bit. Valves (and cathode ray tubes even more so) need high voltages to operate. But the power supplies used to develop those voltages do not normally have the capacity to deliver very high currents, with the result that getting yourself across, say, the 25kV cathode on a tube doesn't generally have the same effect as achieving the same thing with a 25kV traction conductor on the railway. In the former example you'll have the mother of all nasty frights (but you probably won't die). In the latter, all that will remain will be a pair of smoking boots.

 

[geminisnake]

Mixer taps are more convenient and hygenic and you get to wash the soap off in one go.

I can wash my hands using one tap only thanks.
I don't like mixer taps coz if you then just want one of the taps you have to run it to get rid of all the other water, eg. if you want a drink of cold water or you're filling the kettle you have to make sure there's no hot in there.
This would make me think it is LESS hygenic. We drink a lot of tap water.

 

[mattie]

Mixer taps are more convenient and hygenic and you get to wash the soap off in one go. It's progress and there is a good reason why everywhere in the US and the EU they have them. I suppose if you aren't used to them then you don't know the difference, but I miss them. I especially hate two taps in public toilets/bathrooms where there generally isn't a plug.

Confused - most WCs I use have a mixer tap. I think it takes up less space or something. There also seems to be a trend for sensors instead of levers.

 

[felixthecat]

Lever mixer tap is good. Being able to use it one handed is useful. As is being able to set the right temperature point then turn it on and off at that temperature. However, they're a bugger to repair...

Yep agreed. I like mixer taps - less faff. Prefer the levers too - when my old arthritiky thumb is playing up it doesn't hurt to turn the tap on or off.

 

[pk]

Zenie if that earth wire really is live, you have a problem somewhere else in your system. Get it checked soonest.

Gentlegreen, if you are immune to electricity then you must be a different life-form from the rest of us earth people.

It's probably just earth leakage, some twat sparkie hasn't grounded it properly.

Agreed, you need to get it sorted out - but it's less likely to be an actual live as an earth - meaning your upper electrics aren't actually earthed whch has wider safety connotations.

The zap you got was more than likely down from your computer, a major source of earth leakage.

 

[gentlegreen]

What is this hot water of which you speak ?

I only switch on the immersion for my fortnightly bath (and I'm back to washing my clothes in it afterwards since my washing machine made me very cross ..).

 

[Poi E]

Spot on, agnesdavies. Understand now.

 

[idioteque]

I've got a light switch inside my bathroom

 

[Y_I_Otter]

You can use a shaver in the bathroom, but shaver sockets are connected via an isolating transformer - which effectively ensures that there can never be any potential between the live side and earth.

That's the Canadian standard as well. When we added a second bathroom on the ground floor in what had previously been a pantry, the building inspector wouldn't pass it until we installed such a thing. A lot of fussing, just to be able to use an blow-dryer or an electric shaver adjacent to the sink vanity, but I suppose it's all for the best.

:shrug:

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I wondered if anyone could shed any light on a question that has been concerning me since I returned from the USA last week - why is it that we appear to be so strict about electricity sockets and light switches in bathrooms?

In the USA I stayed in a variety of hotels and in private houses and in each case was alarmed to find first of all that the light was operated by a 'normal' lightswitch -ie not on a string- and whatsmore it was very common to find plug sockets in the bathrooms and in most of the hotels hair dryers/ coffee makers plugged into these sockets.

To my British eyes and background this seemed to be very dangerous but I presume in such a litigious society as the USA this has been deemed to be safe so is it just British paranoia for our building regulations or are US circuits safer? Or does the small risk of an electric shock (admittedly from 110volts rather than 240) not worry Americans?

Any have any knowledge / ideas?

Houses here usually don't have them, although you'll find razor sockets in hotel washrooms.