nino_savatte
No pasaran!
I forgot they're called Smooth FM. The change of station name should give you a clue btw. Not much jazz there.
Pirate Radio ....
- Thread starter mememeandme
- Start date
I forgot they're called Smooth FM. The change of station name should give you a clue btw. Not much jazz there.
mememeandme said:
Are you seriously suggesting a station using 150 watts won't interfer with legal stations 0.2 mhz away?
<puts sad anorak on>
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/freq_find/replan_fm.html
However, for good reception, the signal must also be significantly stronger than other signals on the same and adjacent frequencies. The following margins are needed:
Co-channel: 45 dB
100 kHz separation: 33 dB
200 kHz separation: 7 dB
300 kHz separation: -7 dB
400 kHz separation: -20 dB
A negative value indicates that the interfering signal can be stronger. To meet these margins, transmitters on the same and adjacent channels must be some distance apart or heavily screened by hills. Stations 200 kHz apart of similar field strength may be receivable in the same location with different aerial positions. However, official coverage areas can not overlap(my bold)
<anorak off>
So even a 0.4 gap may not be enough to avoid interfering with a legal if your signal is 20db stronger than the legal station. That would normally only happen if the legal signal is quite weak, and you are very near to the pirate transmitter. This happened to me quite recently when I lost Radio Two (which comes from miles away) to a ramadan RSL based up the street.
But a 0.2 gap
You'd wipe out Jazz FM for miles around.mememeandme said:
What's this drivel? No-one's bothered how many complaints you've had against you - you're an illegal broadcaster. I ask again - why should you have the right to stick a transmitter up for free when other broadcasters (including cash-strapped Resonance FM!) have paid thousands?
chio said:
One mans independent community-based radio station is another mans buzzing annoyance. Since the majority of pirate station listeners are teenagers I can't see why you don't keep to Internet radio. Plenty of teenagers have broadband in their parents houses. And it'll keep the airwaves free for those who want intelligent radio. Not just "big-ups" to the Mad Willy Wonka Posse/John Craven Crew every five minutes...
DJWrongspeed
radio eros
mememeandme said:
Forgive me for being suspicious mememeandme, i find your posts here although informative a little strange, coming as you from a pirate perspective? Why you need to air your view point in a public forum is a little odd especially after the Evading Standards journo was trying to glean stuff from us last week.
Radio as a medium is in a huge flux, my view point on the whole broadcasting thing seems to change every week.
mememeandme
New Member
chio said:
In correct, the bottom quote are from their current radio shows. www.smoothfm.com
http://london.smoothfm.com/staff.asp?section=onair
Proves my point, End of discussion regarding what music they play as its been proved they play Jazz.
"What's this drivel? No-one's bothered how many complaints you've had against you - you're an illegal broadcaster. I ask again - why should you have the right to stick a transmitter up for free when other broadcasters (including cash-strapped Resonance FM!) have paid thousands?"
I'm not asking for the right mate, I know its illegal, I didn't once argue against that point, I actually enjoy the fact is illegal as its more of a challenge.
"<puts sad anorak on>
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk.../replan_fm.html
However, for good reception, the signal must also be significantly stronger than other signals on the same and adjacent frequencies. The following margins are needed:
Co-channel: 45 dB
100 kHz separation: 33 dB
200 kHz separation: 7 dB
300 kHz separation: -7 dB
400 kHz separation: -20 dB
A negative value indicates that the interfering signal can be stronger. To meet these margins, transmitters on the same and adjacent channels must be some distance apart or heavily screened by hills. Stations 200 kHz apart of similar field strength may be receivable in the same location with different aerial positions. However, official coverage areas can not overlap(my bold)
<anorak off>
So even a 0.4 gap may not be enough to avoid interfering with a legal if your signal is 20db stronger than the legal station. That would normally only happen if the legal signal is quite weak, and you are very near to the pirate transmitter. This happened to me quite recently when I lost Radio Two (which comes from miles away) to a ramadan RSL based up the street.
But a 0.2 gap You'd wipe out Jazz FM for miles around."
You really make me laught, you are trying to tell me, someone who owns, runs and sets up a London station what my transmissions do, I've spent many hours, driving around London checking what interference I'm causing.
Jazz Fm transmit with 2,000+ watts from Crystal Palace. I transmit on 150watts. Talking signal strenght. Jazz Fm are much more powerful. As I discussed earlier, if you are too loud, your bandwidth streches, thru, creating a larger transmitting pattern. For Example, If you are just dead keying no music. Your bandwidth will be very narrow, and you will hear the stations either side of you cutting in, chopping in and out. For the best proformance, less interference you match the output volume of the stations next to you, this way you don't cut into them and they can't cut into you.
As for me widing Jazz out for mile hahaha. I can pick Jazz fm up clearly at the bottom of my block m8. If I was widing jazz fm out, DTI would have been to take me off sooner.
So the answer to your question, I'm not suggesting, I'm telling you. I don't mean to come across rude, but I don't take lightly to somebody trying to tell me what my stations does and dosn't do, when I spend many hours a day monitoring the station. Checking the output. Volume etc. We compress and limit our audio. Our output volume is actually just a bit louder than Jazz Fm, this stops them cutting into us too much because they are using much much more power. We don't effect Jazz Fm one bit, as I say, people can quite easily pick them up at the bottom of our block. I've checked to see if people can pick jazz up inside the block, i checked it on my phone, no problems, simply people Jazz push big power, from Palace, which is very heigh, I hope this answers your question. I will be happy to answer anymore you may have.
If I was using the same power as Jazz Fm, I would have to use "negitive values" or match their output volume to stop any possible interference, but because they use much more power, I can actually broadcast a litte louder than them, to stop them cutting into me, it cancels each other out, and not cause them anyproblems.
I think we are forgetting, I'm not planning on using 102.4, 0.2 away from jazz, I have been using it for 10months!
DJWrongspeed
radio eros
jæd said:
I doubt that very much, pirates don't have listener stats it just happens that you only hear the listeners in-a-phone-in-style. There are plenty of stations that don't have inane call ins.
mememeandme
New Member
DJWrongspeed said:
I agree, I'm the youngest in our station, the other owners are 30, 35 and 24. Most of londons stations are owned by the older lot. All the djs and mcs are in there late 20s and so on. For the older styles of music, eg jungle, old skool, hardcore, you get the older lot, obviously for the new stuff Grime, they will pull in the younger listeners.
mememeandme said:
Leave that patronising tone at the door - we don't do it here.
Media Guardian said:
http://media.guardian.co.uk/radio/story/0,12636,1640647,00.html
Louloubelle
Well-Known Member
chio said:
alright so i only read the first few posts so far, but am a bit stoned 
now as others have said, pirates - if you interfere with resonance fm, choice, or radio3 then you're cunts
especially if it's the countless garage and jungle stations in north london...
then again raw stylus, supreme, house fm, i take my hat off to you - great stuff!
as for AM you used to get a few rock/mor pirates on AM certainly in sarf london iirc
i was involved with PCRS FM in southampton (people's community radio service) which was a multi ethnic community station which organised community events including barbecues and sorted out problems between white and black people, and gays and muslims a few times - it got shut down by the dti after a 14 year unbroken run, but it has survived (AFAIK)...
definately agree it needs to be made much easier (and cheaper) to get licences, and i think it will be - the growth of wireless broadband will really help in providing potentially limitless scope for speciality and community radio
now as others have said, pirates - if you interfere with resonance fm, choice, or radio3 then you're cunts
especially if it's the countless garage and jungle stations in north london...then again raw stylus, supreme, house fm, i take my hat off to you - great stuff!
as for AM you used to get a few rock/mor pirates on AM certainly in sarf london iirc
i was involved with PCRS FM in southampton (people's community radio service) which was a multi ethnic community station which organised community events including barbecues and sorted out problems between white and black people, and gays and muslims a few times - it got shut down by the dti after a 14 year unbroken run, but it has survived (AFAIK)...
definately agree it needs to be made much easier (and cheaper) to get licences, and i think it will be - the growth of wireless broadband will really help in providing potentially limitless scope for speciality and community radio
PCRS the one i know best was funded by members of the local community, we used to pay to play (if we could) there were benefit gigs and parties, donations etc- it's (or was) as representative as any other community organisation, residents associations, single issue campaigns etc - those who have got the time, inclination, money etc...
Louloubelle
Well-Known Member
polo said:
good point
I think it varies, and to put all pirates in the same category is reductionist IMO
For some it's big business and a way of promoting product, whether their own stuff that idependent or major labels send them. Labels send promos to pirates and to established community radio stations, depending of course of the branding of the station or show
Obviously some pirates generate significant revenue through advertising events
Some of my friends who used to work on pirates enjoyed performing but felt uncomfortable about the filthiness of some of the venues. Listening to the sublime music you would have imagined they were located somewhere heavenly- in fact they were often in filthy flats where you wouldn't feel comfortable touching anything and would decline the offer of a cup of tea.
They also felt uncomfortable about being around people taking copious quantities of drugs, although I didn't hear anything about drug dealing or major crime, just the kind of caning it that some urbanites probably get into of a weekend and it's not for everyone, especially if you're an artist who's trying their best to do good things in the community and be a good role model. Getting arrested at a pirates station wherer there are drugs everywhere isn't a good look, even if you don't take drugs yourself.
On the other hand, some pirates are very, very political and community oriented, with strong anti-crime, anti-violence, anti-drug messages. This is especially true of some of the african / caribbean focussed stations, e.g. genesis is very 'conscious' in it's orientation and has a strong focus on countering racism, countering drugs and violence, especially gun crime, and is very rooted in the local community.
By confiscating transmitters from stations like genesis ofcom is doing more harm than good to the community and, importantly will raise tensions, as people need and want their own radio station.
In the US there is a well established tradition of community access radio in the US, check out this wonderful radio station, they have everything from blues, jazz, onscious hip hop, to gospel to lesbian and gay shows, Latin and Irish programmes, discussion shows for people with disabilities, political discussion, if it's progressive - you name it, they have it, and they have a charter that rocks
http://wrfg.org/about.asp
we need this kind of thing in the UK IMO and until we do, and until it's easier for disempowered communities to gain licenses, pirates will continue to exist. More power to them I say.
Tangent: I was listening to a pirate a couple of years ago on Wally Road and the "conscious" female DJ was giving it all, "you Afrikans are being manipulated by the devil, your clothes are impoverishing you, every dollar you spend on flashy boots funds lynchings because the chairman of Timberland is the President of the KKK" and stuff. I was reading some magazine a couple of weeks ago and it turns out that the head of Timberland for the last eight years or so has been a Jewish guy!
Louloubelle
Well-Known Member
JWH said:
Thing is, I don't agree with everyting I hear on the 'conscious' shows, your example being an interesting and valid one
I used to occasionaly listen to a pirate station (can't remember what it was called, it was based in west london) that was very NOI focussed and included furious long rants about white people being the devil and I especially remember the presenter angrily denouncing all white people on the basis of the faces of white people in a photograph of a lynching a few decades ago in the US.
The presenter was beside himself with rage and described white women laughing and smiling and pointing at the emasculated corpse of a black man who had been lynched. He was reminding his bredren not to fall under the influence of white devil women, and expressing the opinion that all white people would like to see all black men emasculated.
Now myself, I had to think long and hard about this programme.
On the one hand I felt attacked and missrepresented by it as I can honestly say that I've never consciously experienced a wish to emasculate an african man.
On the other hand, I think that much of the unconscious anxieties and projections in relation to racism are a lot to do with a) the projection of animal sexuality onto africans, b) the phantasy that a 'dangerous black man' will commit a castrating act of retribution for all the years of oppression, colonialism and slavery inflicted onto african people and b) the unconscious wish to emasculate the 'dangerous black man' before he can commit such an act.
Excuse me if I'm stating the bleedin obvious, but racism isn't just about weaing pointy white hats and burining crosses, it's about our deepest unconscious anxieties and projections.
As most people here are probably aware I have had a psychoanalytically orientated training (my inclination os towards Kleinian theory) so I'm used to thinking about political issues in terms of bodily representations, phantasies of castration and other bodily attacks regardless of whether it's about race or any other issue, so this particular broadcast was very interesting to me.
I have to say that, while on some levels the presenter of the radio show was paranoid and himself projecting 'badness' onto white people (a kleinian would understand that all humans 'split' our internal conflicts into into good and bad and then project the badness onto an 'other' as a defense against anxiety), at one level (that of white people's deeply held anxieties about africans) his discourse was quite rational.
Anyway, to get back to the point, some 'conscious' shows will be focussed on helping the youth to avoid drugs and gun crime, some may be homophobic or have other elements that I dissagree with.
I still think that people should have a right to freedom of speech and I think that confiscating transmitters is a symbolic form of castration that won't help to bring peace and integration to our cities. Silencing people's views, no matter how much you dissagree with them, just creates a pressure cooker effect where emotions can build up and boil over.
Personally my aspiration would be to have open access / public assess progressive radio stations where gay people, africans, asians, disabled people and any other groups who don't have access to a voice for their concerns can broadcast to their hearts' content.
Look at the radio staion in Atlanta I linked to earlier, that's exactly what it is, a bunch of people of diverse ethnicities, sexual orientations and differing abilities getting together to do something worthwhile in their communities.
I don't think it would be easy but it's a good thing to aim for.
Right, I'm off to work for the day, I will have a flameproof suit at the ready for when I return
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
polo said:
There are no "paymasters", those persons who run pirate stations either do it for the love or they will get some revenue from advertising (illegal under the 1967 Marine & co Broadcasting Offences Act); or through promoting their own gigs on the air, they will attract more punters.
In the auld days we really did it for the love.
Louloubelle said:
Well you may find the themes of this guys rant interesting on a psychological level. But it bad enough being on bus when some disturbed individual decides to give the world a piece of their tortured mind. Why should we suffer it on the radio? Most people simply switch off mentally, others look away embarrassed. There are lots of disturbed people out there and you don't want hear their delusions broadcast on the radio.
That is the point, the pirates make up the rules as they go along, they are uncontrolled and rather than being the voice of a community they can represent only themselves and a narrow set of prejudices.
How well were the people in Lozells served by a pirate stations that encouraged demonstrations that led to rioting and death?
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/birmingham/2005/10/326377.html
People should have a voice, but there has to be some regulation. Radio is a powerful medium and it can do a lot of damage as well as good.
Louloubelle said:In the US there is a well established tradition of community access radio in the US, check out this wonderful radio station, they have everything from blues, jazz, onscious hip hop, to gospel to lesbian and gay shows, Latin and Irish programmes, discussion shows for people with disabilities, political discussion, if it's progressive - you name it, they have it, and they have a charter that rocks
http://wrfg.org/about.asp
we need this kind of thing in the UK IMO and until we do, and until it's easier for disempowered communities to gain licenses, pirates will continue to exist. More power to them I say.
But we already have this kind of thing in the UK, and there's more of it to come - seven licences for community radio were awarded just yesterday in places such as Worcester, Newcastle and Gloucester. Just because they've not found frequencies to put them in London yet (mostly because they've crammed the band with identikit commercial channels) doesn't mean "the UK" doesn't have it.
mememeandme
New Member
"""On the other hand, some pirates are very, very political and community oriented, with strong anti-crime, anti-violence, anti-drug messages. This is especially true of some of the african / caribbean focussed stations, e.g. genesis is very 'conscious' in it's orientation and has a strong focus on countering racism, countering drugs and violence, especially gun crime, and is very rooted in the local community""""
Haha.. The african stations are the worse bunch of us all! Genesis is the most raciest station on the band, they freely slag off english, and whites in general, the UK Goverment, and promote crime against English whites, what plant are you on? All the pirates in London know this as a fact that Genesis is a raciest station, OFcom are aware of this, hence why Genesis get so many raids, this is the problem, people think they know about pirate radio when they don't they are putting across faluse information, incorrect information.
On another note, Pirate radio is ofterned funded out of the managements pocket, I have a full time job, I put in about £50 a week into my station, all the subs, money collected from djs, and advertisting goes straight back into the station, many of us are not gaining but losing, something no one understands, we do it for the love of the music, not the earn a wage, you cannot earn a wage from pirate radio, we are always putting in. Rinse Fm don't gain, they are constantly losing money. I don't know one management who owns a pirate radio and a club, or is a club promotor. Some stations do their own gigs at a club, thrus, for the love of music. The drugs present in the studios are brought by the djs, for personal use, eg a couple of joints worth of skunk. Not big fuckin crack dens, Why would we want to attract unwanted attention to the studio by creatin a skunk house or crack den, theres many djs and mcs, guests coming and going 24/7. It would be silly to do such things. Its all bad publicity.
Haha.. The african stations are the worse bunch of us all! Genesis is the most raciest station on the band, they freely slag off english, and whites in general, the UK Goverment, and promote crime against English whites, what plant are you on? All the pirates in London know this as a fact that Genesis is a raciest station, OFcom are aware of this, hence why Genesis get so many raids, this is the problem, people think they know about pirate radio when they don't they are putting across faluse information, incorrect information.
On another note, Pirate radio is ofterned funded out of the managements pocket, I have a full time job, I put in about £50 a week into my station, all the subs, money collected from djs, and advertisting goes straight back into the station, many of us are not gaining but losing, something no one understands, we do it for the love of the music, not the earn a wage, you cannot earn a wage from pirate radio, we are always putting in. Rinse Fm don't gain, they are constantly losing money. I don't know one management who owns a pirate radio and a club, or is a club promotor. Some stations do their own gigs at a club, thrus, for the love of music. The drugs present in the studios are brought by the djs, for personal use, eg a couple of joints worth of skunk. Not big fuckin crack dens, Why would we want to attract unwanted attention to the studio by creatin a skunk house or crack den, theres many djs and mcs, guests coming and going 24/7. It would be silly to do such things. Its all bad publicity.
Louloubelle
Well-Known Member
mememeandme said:
that's a rather loaded statement don't you think? care to give some examples?
mememeandme said:
My impression of gemini that some of the pesenters are angry (unsurprisingly IMO) but I never heard any slagging off of white people other than to complain about racism. As for slagging off the goverment, how awful!
mememeandme said:
examples please. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, apart from anything else I don't listen to the radio 24/7. I'd be genuinely interested to know exactly what you're talking about
mememeandme said:
mememeandme said:
you really like your sweeping statments don't you? So if I was to ask people at other african stations if gemini is 'reacist' do you think they'd agree. Perhpas when you say "All the pirates in London know this as a fact that Genesis is a raciest station" are you talking about just you and your friends, or perhaps stations exluding african stations?
Louloubelle
Well-Known Member
polo said:
I agree with all the points about the media being a powerful tool, but what I find interesting is that you feel there is some form of credible news reporting that isn't influenced by politics and big business. It's all potentially dangerous and we should question it all. Always. If the media is regulated we have to ask who regulates it and what there agenda is
Re the reporting of the alleged rape in brum, I feel very uncomfortable that the press are reporting stories that a riot occurred bcause of 'a rumour spread by a radio station' as though no rape happened when in fact there is still great incertainty as to whether it happened or not.
Given that the police sent out a message to the girl stating that her immigration status wouldn't be acted upon until any court case was over, is anyone at all surprised that no girl came forward?
It's hard enough to report any kind of sexual assault and no woman being raped will have an easy time leading up to the court case or in court. The specific allegations about this case would make it incredibly difficult for a woman to come forward.
I'm not saying that the assault did or didn't happen I just think it's important to keep an open mind.
I'm off out again but I'll be back later
mememeandme
New Member
Louloubelle said:that's a rather loaded statement don't you think? care to give some examples?
My impression of gemini that some of the pesenters are angry (unsurprisingly IMO) but I never heard any slagging off of white people other than to complain about racism. As for slagging off the goverment, how awful!
examples please. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, apart from anything else I don't listen to the radio 24/7. I'd be genuinely interested to know exactly what you're talking about
you really like your sweeping statments don't you? So if I was to ask people at other african stations if gemini is 'reacist' do you think they'd agree. Perhpas when you say "All the pirates in London know this as a fact that Genesis is a raciest station" are you talking about just you and your friends, or perhaps stations exluding african stations?
My friends, I'm not friends with every station owner, I happen to know the owners of Naijia 101.1 an Nigerian station, they agree, that Genesis is setting a bad example for African/Nigerian stations. As it happens the African stations are the worse offenders of them all, when it comes to pirate radio, they completely disregard it in general, don't take into considderation interference factors, there audio quality is generally very poor. However Genesis is the opposite to those factors, but the worse offender when it comes to rasisum etc.
Some examples heard from presenters on the station
"Whites are trying to take over the black community, whites should be wiped out completely from your communities." It goes on.
10 out of 10 on your sarcasum regarding the slagging off with the Goverment. However my points were not relating to everyday "slagging off" Racist issues were brought in, Tony blair is raciest, treats blacks with disrespect, has no regards for "blacks" safety and well being etc.
Oh regarding promoting crime against whites,
"Fellow africans, this message is for all those in support for the all african black community, exclude the white culture from our communities" shit like that.
I wonder if they also give helpful tips on how to discipiline their houseboy in Lagos. Nigerians have got plenty of dirty laundry that has got nothing to do with white people and everything to do with their homegrown feudalism. They are taking the piss and I don't see any reason why they should be allowed to do this on the air.
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