Photographer writes excellent letter to the band Garbage about unpaid photo use

Discussion in 'photography, graphics & art' started by editor, Apr 2, 2015.

  1. FridgeMagnet

    FridgeMagnet Administrator

    Yes, your pictures have no commercial value because you don't charge for them, that's all.

    I am also an amateur photographer, but if somebody were to want to use something I have on Flickr for commercial purposes, I'd at least charge them something, because to do otherwise devalues photography and is bad for people who do make a living out of it. I get very cross about how many chancers out there expect to be able to get everything digital for free.
    aqua, paul russell999, laptop and 2 others like this.
  2. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    I make films for clients. If I wanted to use a Garbage track in one of them, even if (as many of them are), it was a not-for-profit venture, I'd have to pay between £5,000 - £25,000.
    Fozzie Bear and editor like this.
  3. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    why not ask if they'd let you use it w/o charge?
  4. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    Zero chance.
  5. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    don't ask never gets
  6. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    When I was first starting out I did many asks of that nature. No dice. Ever.
    Many things are supremely negotiable ime - locations, equipment rental, etc., even costume and prop purchases, but getting people to shift on the use of music that has been published is not something that I ever achieved.
  7. 8den

    8den No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...

    Years ago at a reclaim the street in Dublin, about a dozen cops gotten baton happy, and ended up hospitalising 20 people. I was the only person there with a camera and got the whole thing on tape (my camera got trashed by a Garda). The next morning I turned the footage over to two tv stations. Being a young naive "the truth wants to be free" type at the time, I gave one, very reasonable, caveat to the use of the footage; that whenever it was shown, or reused they needed to credit (I was a member of the collective at the time). I think one station managed to remember to do this. The other station just couldn't be arsed, and kept using it over and over again without credit, so I phoned up their archive dept, asked what their rate was for supplying archive footage. I worked out how often they used it, and then sent the invoice to their legal dept.

    Similarly about 10 newspapers lifted stills from the video off the tv and ran the images on their front pages. Again I phoned their picture desks asked them their rate and sent the invoices to their legal dept.

    Paid for a new camera.
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2015
  8. editor

    editor hiraethified

    Just got another one.

    "Are you getting paid?", I asked the person who wanted to use my pic for free.
    "Yes, I am, she replied." "But the budget is very tight."

  9. editor

    editor hiraethified

    Now this one is fucking priceless.

    "I am writing you in order to introduce you my involvement in Concorde
    Magazine, a lifestyle Mag, as design consultant. In this position I am
    currently scouting around for outstanding emerging photographer
    profiles or shootings to be published in the magazine.

    The lifestyle magazine is published on-line as a monthly Briefing, and
    will come up with an annual printed edition that will be distributed
    through top lifestyle retail spaces worldwide. Now the major exposure
    is in Europe and Far East and more and more emerging photographer and
    entrepreneurs are sharing their works with us. Social media exposure
    is becoming very wide spread with FB 8k and an enthusiast growing
    Instagram crowd. Some of the best design articles featured outstanding
    photographers such as Roland Halbe and Janie Airey with pure and
    classy pieces of contemporary and modernist architecture.

    I will be pleased if you are interested in publishing your Center
    Point Tower shooting, without having any financial involvement between
    the parties. We publish your shooting and you benefit from being
    exposed to a refined audience among top emerging photographers.

    "without having any financial involvement between the parties"

    Got to love the new way of saying "for free."
  10. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    wtf is a 'design consultant'? :D
  11. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Well, they won't be charging for the service!
  12. editor

    editor hiraethified

    Just had the Guardian asking to use one of my photos in exchange for no money at all. But they offered a teensy credit. Whoppeedo!
  13. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    Hope you told them to stick it up Guardian Media Group's £830 million investment fund, the chiselling cuntbuckets.
    Greebo, Celyn and Blagsta like this.
  14. editor

    editor hiraethified

    And now the Press Association have asked to use one of my photos which they want to use, "by the 80+ regional papers who subscribe to our news service."

    Generously they said that they'd "happily credit me as the photographer," which is just fantastic news, so I wrote back and said that there would naturally be a charge for a commercial organisation using my photos to further their commercial aims.

    Oh, but guess what - here came the reply: "I'm afraid we don't have any budget for photos so I better leave it."

    Yes, you'd better. Fuckers.
    Greebo, krtek a houby and Belushi like this.
  15. sim667

    sim667 Licking windows on the 303 bus.

    8K likes isn't a measure of anything...... I ended up with 120K when i got really stoned and started up a page for "the game" to make lose "the game"

    You all just lost "the game" by the way.
  16. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    What they didn't say is that their subscribers' fees mean that subscribers pay for all content, so effectively those subscribers would be paying PA for text and images.
    Cuntish, eh?
    Greebo likes this.
  17. 8den

    8den No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...

    Your food is lovely. If you give me a free meal I will tell everyone you cooked it. Must try that in a restaurant some time.
    danny la rouge likes this.
  18. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    Let us know how you got on, once you've recovered from the beating the waiters gave you! ;)
    Pickman's model and 8den like this.
  19. editor

    editor hiraethified

    Man oh man - look at the fucking balls on these fuckers:


    A couple looks for a professional wedding photographer, pays with a chance to say "I’ve shot a wedding before” - DIY Photography
  20. dessiato

    dessiato I have earned the right to sing the blues

    The misuse of "whom" is irritating, too.
    spanglechick likes this.
  21. Gromit

    Gromit International Man of Misery

    I can't muster the same outrage. Weddings are stupid expensive.
    Don't ask don't get. Worth asking, you never know etc.

    It is hard for wedding photographers to get started as the majority of couples don't want an inexperienced person responsible for capturing the special memories of their special day.
    They want references or sight of a portfolio of previous work.

    It's like the actor who can't work without an equity card but can't get an equity card without work.

    This is an actual opportunity to get a foot in a door portfolio wise and someone might actually fancy it along with an oppportunity to chat up bridesmaids, scoff cake and pinch some bubbly.

    (I might personally say okay it's free but you pay expenses still not just gas).
  22. sim667

    sim667 Licking windows on the 303 bus.

    A majority of couples also don't want to pay more than about £500...... which isn't going to get them a experienced photographer.

    If you want a proper professional photographer, you pay the going rate. If not then you collect all your freinds iphone photos.
    neonwilderness, Mr.Bishie and ddraig like this.
  23. xsunnysuex

    xsunnysuex Life is a horizontal fall.

    I found an absolute bargain of a photographer for my daughter's wedding last Nov. He covered the wedding from early morning till early evening. From the bridal party getting ready to the reception. And all for £250. And the photo's were stunning. Was so happy.
  24. editor

    editor hiraethified

    That's because you're not a photographer and don't get this kind of shit all the time. You wouldn't expect a plumber to come around and fix your house for free for the 'publicity', would you? Or try to get him to work for free on some bullshit about "300 potential clients".

    And this 'foot in the door' stuff is utter bollocks too. Have you any idea of how much the equipment they've requested costs? They're asking for people with top of the line pro gear costing many thousands of pounds.
    ddraig likes this.
  25. wiskey

    wiskey Albatross Admirer

    I was confused that they want you to bring lots of expensive kit yet say there might be unknown gatecrashers... Hardly confidence inspiring that your stuff won't get nicked
  26. editor

    editor hiraethified

    The 5D III costs two grand alone. The zoom they specified costs £1,800. I don;t think there'd be many photographers with that kind of gear desperate to do unpaid work for strangers, especially fucking piss taking ones.
  27. Gromit

    Gromit International Man of Misery

    If they contact you direct then yes they are taking the piss. However, they put up an ad...

    You see photographers taking the piss the other direction too asking models to work for free for exposure or portfolio shots. Many even charge the model.

    I didn't notice the equipment demands. So okay that does alter the feel of foot in the door opportunity making those kind of demands. That's no call to an am hoping to go pro.
  28. sim667

    sim667 Licking windows on the 303 bus.

    You often find they're not actually professional photographers, just a pervy old man with a camera. Whattaboutism doesn't really work for this argument.
  29. Gromit

    Gromit International Man of Misery

    The pervy men will be the freebies but also some cheap ass small advertising firms.
    The ones that charge are proper studios using a model's desire to obtain work to create a money market exploiting that hope.
  30. Gromit

    Gromit International Man of Misery

    Don't get me wrong though. I have a lot of respect for the photography industry in which it's getting harder to make a buck since everyone got a camera phone.

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