Phonetic English for Better Education?

[isitme]

imagine how much spunking korea would do if we adapted their (better) alphabet

they are bad enough as it is for going on about how they invented kimchi and something else i can't remember

 

[isitme]

italians use the roman alphabet completely phonetically, except a couple of things it wouldn't be a huge leap

it would be way too much work for the end result tho...

 

[kyser_soze]

I prefer a language that evolves naturally and is compiled backwards, rather than an institution deciding on what's allowed and what is not. Yo know the acadamie fracais thing right? the largely ignored body that issues edicts on what is and isn't proper french words?

Innit? With their 'carte electromagnetique' or whatever they came up with for 'email'...

 

[Fruitloop]

I had a fucking nightmare when I used to have to deal with tech support queries in French, 'cos all the dictionaries of technical terms use the official words for things which by and large aren't the ones people actually use.

 

[kyser_soze]

I had a fucking nightmare when I used to have to deal with tech support queries in French, 'cos all the dictionaries of technical terms use the official words for things which by and large aren't the ones people actually use.

Heh, sounds like technical support and navigating the continental m-way networks are similar.

Belgium is terrible for it - 4 different naming conventions for roads, 3 languages, and usually only 2 or 3 of each on any given road sign...which won't match the information you have on your map...

 

[DotCommunist]

It's bizarre to think that english needs re-working. It's been described (and I am paraphrasing here) as 'a language that leads other languages up dark alleys and mugs them for vocabulary'

Given that it is the dominant lingua franca, the traders tongue, one has to ask why anyone would want to do serious re-engineering of it and how they would do so without becoming pointless and much mocked institutions playing King Canute with a living and constantly evolving language.

Western europe hasn't seen such a shared tongue since Latin.

It isn't broken. So don't try to fix it.

 

[Gmart]

Indeed so.

Very true - the US would will hands down...

We are assuming that there is not an overlap between all the accents - sure the vowels change, but in general the consonants remain the same - and so there is room to move the current system towards a more phonetic version, while retaining accents.

I don't think that anyone who says 'fru' for 'through' would seriously expect to spell it with an 'f' it is obviously a 'th' - and so there is a large area of negotiation.

In other words this is not black and white - it would not be hard to move slowly towards a more phonetic system while retaining the flexibility of the current one.

 

[danny la rouge]

I
Given that it is the dominant lingua franca

And the French and Germans don't even have a word for that...

 

[Gmart]

It isn't broken. So don't try to fix it.

It isn't broken for everyone who can read and write sure - but for the children who need to learn it, the number of exceptions are inordinate.

Like I say, I can see the argument that there is little or no political will - and I accept that I am just being whimsical - but it would be an improvement...

There is no reason why it would stop being the language of the world trade - and indeed making it easier to learn would improve this aspect not diminish it.

 

[DotCommunist]

this is like unTHINK! all over again, but with longer paragraphs

 

[isitme]

It's bizarre to think that english needs re-working. It's been described (and I am paraphrasing here) as 'a language that leads other languages up dark alleys and mugs them for vocabulary'

Given that it is the dominant lingua franca, the traders tongue, one has to ask why anyone would want to do serious re-engineering of it and how they would do so without becoming pointless and much mocked institutions playing King Canute with a living and constantly evolving language.

Western europe hasn't seen such a shared tongue since Latin.

It isn't broken. So don't try to fix it.

this is very true

china seems to be trying to adapt their language to the dominance of english now they are becoming a superpower, no matter how powerful they become their written language won't replace modern written languages tho i don't think, it took me about a week to learn korean, chinese have 20'000 letters, and even 'hello' is hard to draw....

 

[DotCommunist]

It isn't broken for everyone who can read and write sure - but for the children who need to learn it, the number of exceptions are inordinate.

Like I say, I can see the argument that there is little or no political will - and I accept that I am just being whimsical - but it would be an improvement...

There is no reason why it would stop being the language of the world trade - and indeed making it easier to learn would improve this aspect not diminish it.

illiteracy levels in our care and prison system are shocking. Fucking shocking. It ain't language keeping folks down though. You know what it is. Begins with a C

 

[danny la rouge]

We are assuming that there is not an overlap between all the accents - sure the vowels change, but in general the consonants remain the same

"We're" not assuming any such thing, though. Of course there's overlap; there's even overlap between languages.

I'd pick you up on the consonants thing, though. I prrronounce my rs, my whs and drop ts others might pronounce, for example.

 

[JHE]

...it took me about a week to learn korean...

I guess you mean that it took you a week to master the alphabet. If you had really learned Korean, or any other language, to a decent level in a week, I would have to think you were the most impressive language-learner in the world.

 

[Gmart]

"We're" not assuming any such thing, though. Of course there's overlap; there's even overlap between languages.

I'd pick you up on the consonants thing, though. I prrronounce my rs, my whs and drop ts others might pronounce, for example.

Sure but you don't SPELL these words differently just because you say them like this...

 

[kyser_soze]

illiteracy levels in our care and prison system are shocking. Fucking shocking. It ain't language keeping folks down though. You know what it is. Begins with a C

Pish and posh. Capitalism isn't stopping people learning to read FFS.

 

[isitme]

I guess you mean that it took you a week to master the alphabet. If you had really learned Korean, or any other language, to a decent level in a week, I would have to think you were the most impressive language-learner in the world.

yeah the alphabet

after 2 years living there all i learned was how to cuss people out

 

[danny la rouge]

Sure but you don't SPELL these words differently just because you say them like this...

That is correct. And so I support standard spelling. (Although, I pronounce rs that are written which RP speakers drop, and pronounce the wh in while, what, whales and so on, which the South East of England pretty much treats as a w).

 

[DotCommunist]

Pish and posh. Capitalism isn't stopping people learning to read FFS.

is that the assertion I made Kyser? No it isn't.

But what conclusion can we draw from the fact that penal and care institutes have a hell of a lot of illiterate or semi-literate inmates?

 

[kyser_soze]

You said 'C' - presumably you didn't mean the conservative party

That they either don't receive, or in many cases actively rejected, learning to read. I've worked on local adult literacy programmes, and IME the majority of those who I've taught to read usually give 'not liking school' or 'not being bothered to learn, didn't think I needed it' reasons.

It's fucking sad, and an appalling state of affairs that is actually getting worse in the non-penal, non-care population. Literacy rates in the UK and US are both dropping from their peaks in the 1970s&80s...there are a diverse range of reasons for it happening (immigration for example), but the main one I think is the change in the way kids are taught to read...

 

[THINK!]

It's Not About Reflecting Regional Accents!

It's Not About Reflecting Regional Accents! It's about using the alfabet rules you wer given as a child and implementing them. For example:


Save
Dave
Rave
Cave
"Behave", take away the "Be" and you have "Have",
"Have" should be spelt "Hav".

Dive
Hive
Five

and then "Give"
"Give" should be spelt "Giv",

so fucking simple, so why can't you get it? The people on this site ar so fucking thick!

 

[DotCommunist]

oh fuck this shit all over again.

 

[THINK!]

THINK! for Fuck's Sake!

is that the assertion I made Kyser? No it isn't.

But what conclusion can we draw from the fact that penal and care institutes have a hell of a lot of illiterate or semi-literate inmates?

That our spellings need to be changed. WE have and other Anglo-phone countries hav a functionally illiterarte population of about 20% compared to other countries where their spellings mor closely resemble how it is spoken and follow alfabetical rules, where it's about 8%. It takes the average English speaking child 3 years longer to master his written language than the average non-English speaking child to master theirs. (Masha Bell).

 

[THINK!]

oh fuck this shit all over again.

Yes, that shit again, my little timid one. Isn't it about time you started thinking instead of being so scared of the World you fear any change. You'll not very revolutionary for a Revolutionary!

 

[DotCommunist]

You'll have to spell that all phonetically for a poor ignorant prole such as myself. And do so in my native accent ta!

 

[THINK!]

You'll have to spell that all phonetically for a poor ignorant prole such as myself. And do so in my native accent ta!

I won't spell it in an regional accent buit i will simplify it:

You'll hav to spell that all fonetically for a por ignorant prole as myself. And do so in my Nativ assent ta!

Fucking simple.

Don't you want to reduce our literacy problem? Changing the spellings is cheaper than getting mor teachers and mor prisons to fill up with people let down by our spelling system.

 

[Giles]

Changing the spellings is cheaper than getting mor teachers and mor prisons to fill up with people let down by our spelling system.

Doo they put peepl in prizon for spelling rong then?

Gilez..

 

[kyser_soze]

That our spellings need to be changed. WE have and other Anglo-phone countries hav a functionally illiterarte population of about 20% compared to other countries where their spellings mor closely resemble how it is spoken and follow alfabetical rules, where it's about 8%. It takes the average English speaking child 3 years longer to master his written language than the average non-English speaking child to master theirs. (Masha Bell).

That's such a load of bollocks it's unbelievable.

 

[tarannau]

THINK always betrays his username by speaking an entirely simplistic load of betty swollocks.

 

[THINK!]

Doo they put peepl in prizon for spelling rong then?

Gilez..

Eh, check out the quote abuv. our prison populations hav illiteracy problem of between 50% to 70%! That is a huge problem, Face it!