Petition - on home education
- Thread starter thought
- Start date
This is simply wrong on both scores, never mind the spelling.
Schedule 1 of the Children, Schools and Families Bill which is currently before Parliament makes provision for a new register for homeschooled children. There is provision for meetings to take place between the LEA and the parent and child and inspections of the place where a child is educated. However:
- Arrangements may not be made to see the child on its own if "the child or a parent of the child objects".
- There is no power of entry whatever conferred by the provisions. If the parent refuses to co-operate, then the sanction is for the LEA to remove the child from the register.
Personally, while I support the parent's right to choose to homeschool, I think the child's right to a full and competent education outweighs that and this inspection regime is much-needed.
The police actually have extensive powers of entry without warrant under, for example, sections 18 and 32 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984.
Completely wrong. See above.
Link to the relevant part of the Bill here:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmbills/008/10008.38-44.html#m01s
Mungy
i haz boobz
To be fair, the OP is dyslexic, so perhaps an apology is in order. Besides there is more to education than spelling and grammar.
Nor was original poster home educated, in fact she has gcse's A levels, HNC and HND level qualifications. Health and Safety Management qualifications and believe it or not is doing university study in her free time.
I was however forced through the great british education system and taught myself EVERYTHING at the age of 18.
For your information, as i dont live in England.. this bill has NOTHING to do with me.. However it does have a lot to do with the liberties of individuals in England.. and for that I will fight. No one, should have to register with any organisation because they do something differently to the accepted norm.. (unless off course that is a criminal act now? )
Signing off now, as i remeber why i dont visit Urban as often as i used to.. its still full of bullies.
I was however forced through the great british education system and taught myself EVERYTHING at the age of 18.
For your information, as i dont live in England.. this bill has NOTHING to do with me.. However it does have a lot to do with the liberties of individuals in England.. and for that I will fight. No one, should have to register with any organisation because they do something differently to the accepted norm.. (unless off course that is a criminal act now? )
Signing off now, as i remeber why i dont visit Urban as often as i used to.. its still full of bullies.
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
Referring to oneself in the third person is rarely a good starting point.
Good luck with the uni. I would consider spending some time re visiting the rules of grammar, especially if it's an essay based course. I know I need to spend some time improving my written English but you seem to be throwing punctuation at the sentence and hoping it sticks.
PS. Bullying is a rather harsh term and not one that will endear you to others. the criticism you have been getting has been fairly mild and deserved as far as I can see.
fractionMan
Custom Title
Any comments on anything anyone posted? Anything at all other than the cop out "you're all bullies" rubbish?
A lot of people raised a lot of valid and interesting points and you've ignored them all. Why is that?
. bully online might be worth a visit
When I am doing Uni work i do Uni level work.. When I am doing relaxed work, I relax. After all Urban isnt a uni server is it... cant you lot relax??
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
Relaxed work? I don't see Urban as work at all myself, but either way when i'm relaxing I still try to use correct grammar and spelling as much as possible. It helps communication and as we've seen if you can't communicate your ideas then they will not always be given the consideration you think they merit.. bully online might be worth a visit
When I am doing Uni work i do Uni level work.. When I am doing relaxed work, I relax. After all Urban isnt a uni server is it... cant you lot relax??
www.bullyonline.com is a website about two Bullmastiffs, nice dogs but I don't see the relevance.
Total bullying tactics you fucking idiot. IQ IS NOT determined by written ability. When you are able to face that basic fact, then i might find the time to return. YOU FUCKTARD !!!
If we've managed for this long without these new powers and new registers and all the pettifogging bureaucracy, why is it necessary now?
Its like ID cards - we've managed without them thus far, why do the powers that be want to stick their noses in even more?
We need a lot less bureaucracy and rules, not more.
"If it is not necessary to change, it is necessary not to change"
Giles..
Its like ID cards - we've managed without them thus far, why do the powers that be want to stick their noses in even more?
We need a lot less bureaucracy and rules, not more.
"If it is not necessary to change, it is necessary not to change"
Giles..
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Ranting on that someone is a "fucktard" also constitutes "bullying tactics", you know.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
I realise that familiarising yourself with the pertinent information on any subject you choose to comment on isn't you modus operandi, but you could at least make a small effort to familiarise yourself with the relevant arguments occassionally.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Take a look at th general sweep of direction of policy over the last 30 years, Giles. You'll see a factor that originated in the early 1970s, and has become ever more prevalent since: Risk minimisation. Not, as you might expect, a forceful push to minimise risk to the individual, but a push to minimise risk/repercussions to the state of the effects of policy. What this bill is aimed at is minimising the risk to the state of deleterious outcomes from previous education policy by "policing" those who are not deemed sufficiently "protected" by current education policy.
I have read the whole thread and most of the linked documents.
This still seems to me to be:
a) unnecessary intrusion. Why now? Why have we not needed this for the last 100 years? Just let people get on with it, if a few f*** up, just accept it.
b) more expense at a time when the country is shortly going to have to cut back on state expenditure as the economy caves in.
c) an annoying waste of people's time.
Giles..
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
So the CP reasons don't count then? Or the fact that in recognising the Rights of the Child, the govt actually has to do something to ensure that said rights aren't being violated?
That you even have to ask the first question indicates you've read nothing of the linked documents or the comments in them.
That you even have to ask the first question indicates you've read nothing of the linked documents or the comments in them.
_angel_
.
really? all i see are the usual piling-in on anyone with an unpopular view going on here and the reasons i usually stay away from threads like this.
if leas want to interview children (without an adult present) why stop at home edders? there wouldn't be enough hours in the day i suspect.
there is suspicion of parents who take their kids out of the system i'm afraid, however if they want to do welfare checks there needs to be a reason and it's covered by legislation already, not connected with education.
Stating that "something has to be done" BECAUSE of another quite arbitrary set of rules doesn't justify it to me.
Leave people alone.
Giles..
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Mind you, it can be firmly argued that the govt is fairly lackadaisical about ensuring that children's rights aren't violated if the children are asylum seekers, as they've had a couple of reservations on the declaration since its' inception with regard to unaccompanied minor asylum seekers.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Like I said, this is arse-covering, high and low, so that if anything goes tits-up with individual home-educated children, the LEA and central government can say "not our fault, chief. We fulfilled our statutory duties".
LilMissHissyFit
Disturbed in a pink bra
unfortunately the government has little evidence with which to back the necessity of these regulations or procedures.... the report on which they rely is not evidence based, merely a collection of Badmans own opinions which seem to have been formed from his close family and associates views on home education and the demands of Local Education authorities to have greater access to children on a 'just in case' basis
Children do have rights, all children. MOST of the home education community take their childrens rights very seriously and would rather things were reported accurately. I dont actually agree with the wording of the petition, it undermines what more moderate home educators are trying to get accross in our objections to these proposals... the people who scream and shout about parents being required to have CRB's to parent their own children do themselves or other home educators no favours... because thats not whats being propsed... if people concentrated only on what is being proposed instead of trying to repond in a hysterical fashion it would help IMO.
However what is proposed is that Local authorities- without any evidence of wrongdoing or harm to children, should be allowed uninterupted right of access to a parents home on demand ( given notice) and also that they should be allowed to spend some considerable time with the child without their parent, carer or others present in order to question them intensively on issues of safety and welfare. We would not find that acceptable if imposed upon a family who chooses to send their child to school- indeed it would be viewed as intructive, threatening and an abuse of the states power( unless there were justifable and identifiable grounds for concern)
Can I draw your attention ( and other posters) to this speech to Parliament made my Lord Lucas which outlines very eloquently the objections to this bill and Id appreciate it being read.
I think the issues are getting incredibly 'muddied' by people reacting hysterically ( as thought and the petition organiser seem to be) and also people reading the links provided ( which have a range of views and arguments presented but many are balanced and well throught through) and decreeing that they are all hysterical and 'with an agenda' well yes, they home educators do have an agenda.... none of us want our lives invaded on a 'just in case youre up to something' basis... nobody else in the UK is subject to such interventions or powers unless there is reasonable suspicion of actual wrongdoing. IF they are suspected, peoperly qualified people ( social workers) investigate and already have sufficient powers to intervene if they wish. There is no need for these proposals and many home educators would welcome the measures that are already in place being properly implemented. Its using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
As such we are being treated as guilty until or unless we can be proven innocent and the education and wellbeing of our children is at stake....
anyway, read the speech please, if you would.... Thanks
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld/ldtoday/22.htm
LilMissHissyFit
Disturbed in a pink bra
Thats EXACTLY what was said at the select committee enquiry by one of the witnesses, he admitted that that was his concern, that if anything happens it will be the heads of local authorities who will be blamed ( it should also be noted that Grahan Badman replaced Sharon shoesmith as head of child protection in harringey)
( I will try and find the link and add it here if I can)
Also its worth noting that the chair of the select committee itself is so worried and concerned by the Badman report that he has requested that home educators petition their MP to parliament, so far over 300 consitiuencies are signed up to submit a petition ( actual paper petitions which are recorded in hansard and carry weight, unlike the web based petitions)
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
I'm not sure what IQ has to do with anything, it's a very crude tool for estimating intelligence and in fact only really measures how good you are at IQ tests. It wasn't in your post or my post or raised in any way that i've seen. There's a fair few threads on it around here although it's a pain in the arse to find them.
It's not even as if I mentioned intelligence in my post or called you thick. I did take the piss a bit with the bull mastiffs but you walked into that one.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Here's my basic position on it.
There's nothing wrong with the register in principle, the home visits stuff needs to be looked at to make it less intrusive, but the home edders need to appreciate that some kind of auditing of what they're doing should happen.
There are still 2 more readings plus the committee and reporting stages before this Bill Becomes Law (note my humourous use of capitalisation there, US civics text book fans!!), in the HoC and HoL, plus an election next June (at the latest), so given that Cameron doesn't want this, and Broon is unlikely to win, it's pretty much dead duck legislation wise...
There's nothing wrong with the register in principle, the home visits stuff needs to be looked at to make it less intrusive, but the home edders need to appreciate that some kind of auditing of what they're doing should happen.
There are still 2 more readings plus the committee and reporting stages before this Bill Becomes Law (note my humourous use of capitalisation there, US civics text book fans!!), in the HoC and HoL, plus an election next June (at the latest), so given that Cameron doesn't want this, and Broon is unlikely to win, it's pretty much dead duck legislation wise...
Mungy
i haz boobz
What good would an audit do? The majority of the auditors will probably have little or no understanding of home education - not all of us have a set curriculum, lesson plan or formal structure. All school kids are taught pretty much the same thing - whereas almost all the home ed kids I know are taught different things at different times, dipping in and out of subjects as needed rather than "maths on a monday 11 til 12".
Because we generally have more time to spend on a given item, we can cover it in more depth or even approach it from a multi-discipline POV, which I imagine would be difficult for a state teacher to do, due to lack of time and constrictions imposed by the curriculum.
In HE most children have their education tailored to suit them. Would an auditor understand this and take it into consideration?
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