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#PeoplesVote: Would you change your vote?

1st Vote>2nd Vote

  • Total voters
    192
I voted remain but would vote leave now.

There are lots of reasons why - and still a good many reasons to remain - but fundamentally it comes down to abject fear of what would happen when the disconnect between the electorate and politics becomes a shoved-in-your-face divorce.

Simply put, no matter how crap post-Brexit Britain is, it would be nothing to the risks involved in holding a referendum on something at visceral as identity, promising in a subsequent election to uphold that decision, and then manufacturing the circumstances in which it is fudged and kicked off into the long grass of death.
 
I voted remain last time because I thought the end result of leave would be a fudged situation where the UK was still largely aligned with the EU but zero say or influence over the EU. I thought the main protagonists for leave, at least the ones who hi-jacked the campaign and the ones who would be the ones to shape it, were telling a pack of lies - not that many (if any) round here fell for the lies it has to be said.

Over the last two years I think my first point has been largely proved to be correct with May's shitty deal (though at many points in the two years I thought we could end up elsewhere) and the second one still holds. I still think the EU is a pile of shit but I also think it would suit the UK's interests in the immediate future to be at the centre of it rather than attached but ignored.

I think I'd rather have a no deal crash out than a shitty deal. I think it would be better in the long term though there is no denying the affects could be potentially devastating in the short term.
 
dialectician said:
abstain/abstain.

Communists are not fetishists of the democratic principle because they are anti-state, as opposed to reactionaries who are anti-democrats but who want to preserve all the institutional mechanisms of the democratic state.

That being said i'd vote leave if the lads over at Proletarian Democracy were in charge of the negotiations.
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So if that's me, you and danny la rouge who is the other dogmatic holdout?
 
If there's a second referendum there can't be an undefined meaning of Leave, it needs to be a concrete proposal, flaws and all, just as remain has always had to contend with.

Everyone voting Leave again or anew, what Leave are you backing? Mays deal? Norway +? , CANZUK White Utopian Disaster Capitalism ++?

It would have to be an option that would make it on the ballot. (Never mind being politically able to be implemented).

I get the impression few really care, prepared, again, to vote to Leave without a care what that actually IS.
 
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ska invita said:
If there's a second referendum there can't be an undefined meaning of Leave, it needs to be a concrete proposal, flaws and all, just as remain has always had to contend with.

Everyone voting Leave again or anew, what Leave are you backing? Mays deal? Norway +? , CANZUK White Utopian Disaster Capitalism ++?

It would have to be an option that would make it on the ballot. (Never mind being politically able to be implemented).

I get the impression few really care, prepared, again, to vote to Leave without a care what that actually IS.
Click to expand...
The exact same could be said of remain. But more importantly this idea that people have to vote based on the limits imposed by the political parties is terrible.

People vote for their own, often overlapping, sometimes contradictory, reasons. This insistence of yours of making voting, whether for representatives or in a referendum, a case of supporting what the political class does is false (we know there are all kinds of reasons people vote the way they do), inconsistent with other positions you've advocated (vote X to keep out Y) and reactionary. It's the type of elitist nonsense taffbhoy used to come out with arguing that all Labour voters were supporters of the Iraq invasion. And it means you end up painting people as supporting all types of crap they don't, you're erasing the widespread opposition to many regressive policies that does exist in society.
 
Voted leave but would spoil in a second referendum. Purely to keep whatever side from getting a large enough majority to make it decisive.

Long may the Tories and blairites fuckwittery and intellectual bankruptcy be exposed.
 
ska invita said:
If there's a second referendum there can't be an undefined meaning of Leave, it needs to be a concrete proposal, flaws and all, just as remain has always had to contend with.

Everyone voting Leave again or anew, what Leave are you backing? Mays deal? Norway +? , CANZUK White Utopian Disaster Capitalism ++?

It would have to be an option that would make it on the ballot. (Never mind being politically able to be implemented).

I get the impression few really care, prepared, again, to vote to Leave without a care what that actually IS.
Click to expand...
I’d probably just vote to leave the EU.
 
I've always thought democracy in this country is an illusion, a fraud even. The FPTP systems is nothing more than a power consolidating scam which I'll have nothing to do with. Its as this point that a lot of the stuff around the referendum has irked me, why this this one vote is so sacrosanct for democracy when we don't have it in the first place? Why single this one out? Its just another illusion. Reminds me a bit of the 'Take back control' meaningless nonsense we had at the time. The empowerment is just washing over me now...
 
redsquirrel said:
The exact same could be said of remain. But more importantly this idea that people have to vote based on the limits imposed by the political parties is terrible.

People vote for their own, often overlapping, sometimes contradictory, reasons. This insistence of yours of making voting, whether for representatives or in a referendum, a case of supporting what the political class does is false (we know there are all kinds of reasons people vote the way they do), inconsistent with other positions you've advocated (vote X to keep out Y) and reactionary. It's the type of elitist nonsense taffbhoy used to come out with arguing that all Labour voters were supporters of the Iraq invasion. And it means you end up painting people as supporting all types of crap they don't, you're erasing the widespread opposition to many regressive policies that does exist in society.
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Yeah but in a second ref it could well just be Mays deal on the card. and/or Norway Lol. I'm checking to see if thats what everyone saying theyd vote Leave with confidence will vote for or not. Nebulous Leave wont be on the ticket next time around
 
ska invita said:
Yeah but in a second ref it could well just be Mays deal on the card. and/or Norway Lol. I'm checking to see if thats what everyone saying theyd vote Leave with confidence will vote for or not. Nebulous Leave wont be on the ticket next time around
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That doesn't address the point(s) I made. Regardless of what is on the ballot officially people put their own interpretation on what the vote is about. Look at all the boosts majorities for anti-Corby MPs last general election.
 
Voted remain last time. Feeling super-smug this time, so I'm hoping for something on the ballot along the lines of 'Remain, let Turkey in, EU army, let Spain just have Gibraltar, Harry Kane to play for Bulgaria'.
 
Voted Remain, would now vote Leave. I'm very much in the "No Deal is better than a bad deal" camp, and we ain't going to get anything but a bad deal. We should either be in the EU, or completely out of it.
The Irish border is the only issue which dissuades me from that view. Lock Gove, Johnson, Mogg and Farage up in the tower till they solve it. Or just put a customs border down the North Sea and piss the DUP off.
 
chilango said:
It's all fucking false premises at this point isn't it?
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nothing should get in the way of our speculating ;)

But its worth making the point, theres a massive difference between Leave and Norway + (aka not really leaving at all), and other options might have just as strong differences to a Leave vote that people think they may be happy to tick at this stage.
 
For example
mx wcfc said:
Voted Remain, would now vote Leave. I'm very much in the "No Deal is better than a bad deal" camp, and we ain't going to get anything but a bad deal. We should either be in the EU, or completely out of it.
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its massively unlikely (i think :hmm:) that you'll get a vote on No Deal in a 2nd ref...therell be one or more bad deals.
 
ska invita said:
For example

its massively unlikely (i think :hmm:) that you'll get a vote on No Deal in a 2nd ref...therell be one or more bad deals.
Click to expand...
Agreed. But if we do have another referendum, and vote leave again, and Parliament can't approve either May's deal, or a watered down version (on the big assumption one is available), what's left?
 
mx wcfc said:
Agreed. But if we do have another referendum, and vote leave again, and Parliament can't approve either May's deal, or a watered down version (on the big assumption one is available), what's left?
Click to expand...
i think the idea is that the voting public approve (or not) a particular deal and parliament has to suck it up
 
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