People who support attacks on their OWN working conditions

[poster342002]

... and wa-hayyy!! I've just heard someone insisting "we have to be positive and make the best of it. It'll improve things in the long term" about a new fuckwittedly complicited and unnecessary scheme brought in that makes a previously simple part of all our jobs three times as complicated.

Yes - let's all be postive about having a ball and chain attached to our leg. Wouldn't want to be resistant to change now, would we?

There's just no fucking bottom line.

 

[Groucho]

In a workplace in 2025:

poster342002: I hate you people collaberating with your own oppression, accepting everything the bosses throw at you

colleague: no, actually we are on strike tomorrow

poster342002: but no-one will support it except you long term activists

colleague: but I started after you and when we were on strike yesterday everyone was on strike except one scab

poster342002: you see it is never solid, strikes will always be undermined by selfish individuals

colleague: but you were the one scab! Everyone else was on strike.

poster342002: You loony left-wingers always say that

colleague: are we all loonty lefties then except you?

poster342002: you can't win, you are all stupid apart from me and will just go along with whatever the boss says

colleague: but while you were working this morning we dragged the boss outside and hanged him from the nearest lampost

poster342002: you say that now but you wait as soon as he is back here it'll be 'yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir'.

colleague: no it won't cos we killed him

poster342002: his ghost will order you about and you'll all bow down just wait and see

colleague: well I'm off home now, are you coming down the pub?

poster342002: no, I have to finish this work because scab bastards like you set an example for the rest of us, it is all work work work

colleague: so you are staying here then

poster342002: yes I have to. If only other people were rebelious like me, but no they are all 'work work work'..now be quiet I must get on

colleague: bye then

 

[poster342002]

^^^^^^^^ A forecast as innacurate as that famous one in 1987.

 

[glenquagmire]

How about a retractment or even apology for your wildly inaccurate assumptions about me personally above?

 

[poster342002]

How about a retractment or even apology for your wildly inaccurate assumptions about me personally above?

OK, your not a long-term activist and I can't comment about the rest of the situation you described. If it makes you feel any better I apologise.

 

[glenquagmire]

Thank you. Best to avoid generalisations and assumptions about people you haven't met, I think.

 

[poster342002]

"It's just the way it is" goes someone defending-the-indefensible to justify us falling over sideways as usual.

"If we always said that, we'd still have the polltax" say I in return

"yes, but the polltax was a good thing" say they in response.

CHRIST!!

ARRGGGHHH!!!!!

 

[fela fan]

Poster, i can't help but laugh at your posts. Basically coz it all seems so real, yet unreal.

My sympathies won't be worth a carrot, but nevertheless they exist.

The biggest thing that gets me is that no-one speaks out. I recall an experience where we had a work meeting (probably a long way from your context, but still), and beforehand plenty of fellow workers were all complaining about the upcoming increased hours and reduced pay. But when it came to the meeting, just one person apart from myself spoke out at all. He actually deserved some credit, since he had more to lose than the others. I spoke out emphatically since an injustice was about to occur. But i was actually leaving the job to return to the UK to study.

It is amazing how easily people allow themselves to be trampled upon.

 

[poster342002]

.

 

[poster342002]

It is amazing how easily people allow themselves to be trampled upon.

Even more amazing is how they're fucking proud of it and ask for more.

 

[durruti02]

You actually hate the left for its failures more than you hate the right for its sucesses, don't you?

The right has the power and the money and the media and the guns. Give the left a chance, all they've got are tatty anoraks and the power of socialist righteousness.

yes but that was not always the case .. the left WERE once BIG ( 45 election / union membership / 3 day week / bringing down heath / miners strikes / '79 etc etc etc) .. the debate in my mind is HOW they have lost this .. poster is right partially to be angry with those middle class idiots who run the liberal left for the damage they have done .. the harmans the caliinicos's the tariq ali's etc etc

i think fundamental it is down to leninist ideology being managerial ..

 

[audiotech]

yes but that was not always the case .. the left WERE once BIG ( 45 election / union membership / 3 day week / bringing down heath / miners strikes / '79 etc etc etc) .. the debate in my mind is HOW they have lost this .. poster is right partially to be angry with those middle class idiots who run the liberal left for the damage they have done .. the harmans the caliinicos's the tariq ali's etc etc

i think fundamental it is down to leninist ideology being managerial ..

Nothing to do with the Labour party in government then?

 

[poster342002]

Nothing to do with the Labour party in government then?

Yes, but the far-left's dumbarsed response to it and lack of understanding of the beast has helped to get us to the WORST state of political struggle and awareness in living memory.

I accurately predicted this is where it'd end when the fuckwits were saying "vote labour without illusions" in the runup to 1997. I have even been told by some idiot trots that even though I was proved right I was still wrong to say this at the time.

 

[durruti02]

Nothing to do with the Labour party in government then?

MC but that is a given mate isn't it?? of course that is massively important .. i am talking about those who say they are differrent .. but fundamentally are not

 

[audiotech]

Yes, but the far-left's dumbarsed response to it and lack of understanding of the beast has helped to get us to the WORST state of political struggle and awareness in living memory.

I accurately predicted this is where it'd end when the fuckwits were saying "vote labour without illusions" in the runup to 1997. I have even been told by some idiot trots that even though I was proved right I was still wrong to say this at the time.

The argument was vote with your class, but build an alternative to New Labour. Most, with any political nouse, understood that the New Labour project wouldn't and furthermore couldn't deliver the promised land.

 

[audiotech]

MC but that is a given mate isn't it?? of course that is massively important .. i am talking about those who say they are differrent .. but fundamentally are not

Different? In what way?

 

[poster342002]

The argument was vote with your class, but build an alternative to New Labour. Most, with any political nouse, understood that the New Labour project wouldn't and furthermore couldn't deliver the promised land.

The "class" largely abandoned Nulab way back then when it saw through it (I rememebr survey after survery showing that the working classses were abandoning support in droves). The only people I knew supporting NuLab were middleclass line-management types (no they were NOT being 'proletarianised' - they wanted and got a change from the "inefficient" tories to the "efficient" rigthwing NuLab) and left/tu activists who were engaged in some collosul, forlorn and deluded hope. Then there were people such as yourselves advocating that we shoot ourselves in the foot just so we could see that it hurts.

 

[audiotech]

The "class" largely abandoned Nulab way back then when it saw through it (I rememebr survey after survery showing that the working classses were abandoning support in droves). The only people I knew supporting NuLab were middleclass line-management types (no they were NOT being 'proletarianised' - they wanted and got a change from the "inefficient" tories to the "efficient" rigthwing NuLab) and left/tu activists who were engaged in some collosul, forlorn and deluded hope. Then there were people such as yourselves advocating that we shoot ourselves in the foot just so we could see that it hurts.

No I didn't. I was telling people at the time that I thought New Labour was a load of New Bollocks, but they went off and voted for them anyway.

 

[poster342002]

No I didn't. I was telling people at the time that I thought New Labour was a load of New Bollocks, but they went off and voted for them anyway.

Perhaps you telling them to vote "without illiusions" but "with the class" for a party that you also said was "a load of New Bollocks" might have muddled the argument a bit to the point where they couldn't quite work out what your position was or or even why you were advocating it. God knows the intellectual knots it took to argue that one.

Or maybe the people you were talking to were middleclass types (that you'll insist are some sort of workers) who were quite enthusiastic about NuLab's openly rightwing, authoritarian agenda and saw no reason to oppose it?

 

[audiotech]

Perhaps you telling them to vote "without illiusions" but "with the class" for a party that you also said was "a load of New Bollocks" might have muddled the argument a bit to the point where they couldn't quite work out what your position was or or even why you were advocating it. God knows the intellectual knots it took to argue that one.

Or maybe the people you were talking to were middleclass types (that you'll insist are some sort of workers) who were quite enthusiastic about NuLab's openly rightwing, authoritarian agenda and saw no reason to oppose it?

Nope.

 

[mk12]

Clerical admin.

I think my experiences are not, sadly, untypical of the industry either.

I'm not an admin per se, but work in an office environment (40-50 employees). There's no union and despite people secretly hating the manager's/director's policies, nothing is ever done. The turnover of staff is ridiculous, and although people grumble about it, nothing is said out in the open for fear of backlash. If the manager doesn't like someone, their life is made very difficult.

What to do, what to do.

 

[poster342002]

I'm not an admin per se, but work in an office environment (40-50 employees). There's no union and despite people secretly hating the manager's/director's policies, nothing is ever done. The turnover of staff is ridiculous, and although people grumble about it, nothing is said out in the open for fear of backlash. If the manager doesn't like someone, their life is made very difficult.

What to do, what to do.

Another thing that is not conducive to workers' resistance in most office environments is that almost EVERYONE is someone else's boss (and thus idnenifies more with management-doctrine than with any notion of solidarity) apart from the one or two worker-grades at the bottom of the structure. A recipe for backstabbing & bullying of jumiors and servile sycophancy towards anyoen senior in rank.

That is the reality of most office-based workplaces - nomatter how much the "left" tries to pretend it is not happening.

 

[mk12]

That's a 'successful' management strategy. To be fair, in our workplace, even the 'co-ordinators' who are 'in charge' of teams side with us. It's clear that the manager of our department is fully in charge over the rest of us, no matter how much she pretends her hands are tied and she fights on behalf of us against the directors.

I am guessing you work in the private sector? Those on here who are involved in TU activities, who work in an office environment, probably work in the public sector where unionism is more prevelant.

There is plenty of animosity towards management, but it takes the form of whispering, talking about it at lunch/after work etc. I think it would be good if there was a forum for airing our grievances at work. Obviously this would not be welcomed by management.

 

[Fledgling]

There's now also a whole new generation that's entered the workforce with no comprehension of standing up together for their workplace rights. Instead, it's all about individualistic, ass-pirational corporate ladderclimbing for them.

As part of this new generation (have only been working under the dear leader and his unelected successor) I think you've made a relevant point. When entering a job now I'm sure many of us are largely interested in promotion and advance. Why? Because that brings (hopefully) more money and money is a reasonable bet. Having more money allows you to buy things you want and cushion you to an extent; so people want to move up wherever possible. It's difficult to conceive an alternative model, the current gamble is perhaps easier to understand than an uncertain type of cooperation.

I alo think people keep quiet because they aren't sure what to do and are very worried about losing their jobs. Granted some people believe in "flexiblity" etc but they are perhaps a vocal minority and either bleat on due to the fact they can't face the idea of losing their rights OR they've done a bit better recently and attribute this to "hard work".

But poster, what would you like to see happen? Starting with your office.

 

[poster342002]

That's a 'successful' management strategy. To be fair, in our workplace, even the 'co-ordinators' who are 'in charge' of teams side with us. It's clear that the manager of our department is fully in charge over the rest of us, no matter how much she pretends her hands are tied and she fights on behalf of us against the directors.

I've worked in places where the TU reps insisted the above was the case when the actual reality was a million miles off it. The TU reps were so busy trying to convince themselves of the (non-existant) solidarity between the grades that they ignored all the bullying and way rank was rubbed in junior colleague's noses on a daily basis.

I am guessing you work in the private sector? Those on here who are involved in TU activities, who work in an office environment, probably work in the public sector where unionism is more prevelant.

Such attititudes are also rife in the public sector. Even where unions exist they ofete have no grassroots participation.