People who support attacks on their OWN working conditions

[FridgeMagnet]

As a general rule you're right.

My place has a 'flexible working policy' that actually does cut both ways (mostly), guess I'm just lucky.

My last place did for a bit. You would work til 10 or 11 or on weekends sometimes at crunch periods, but could get overtime or extra holiday for it, and could take time off at quite short notice. Not quite balanced but not too bad.

Then they banned overtime, though still expected everyone to do the same amount of work, but the line manager would give unofficial days in lieu - "just let me know beforehand, I won't say anything".

Then of course they sacked him basically for being too difficult with higher management and having the audacity to stand up for people in his team. That was the icing on the big fat corporate cake for me. So, you know, I just don't trust any situation that's not explicitly laid out in the contract now.

(The irony was that HR was so fucked up in that place that people could easily just not come back from holiday for a couple of days and nobody would know how long they'd booked for.)

 

[8ball]

Probably not, but it might be useful in taking the fight to the bosses in a more constructive way. How many people are getting educated here - really this is jsut a ranting forum (for all of us). They've got a lot of ideas and they think the traditional left and anarchists have lost the plot, so why not get together and get out there and put the work in. They might be surprised, and it'd make them feel like they're not alone in the world. I'm not trying to be mean or argumentative here, I'm just getting bored of the impotent rage. I feel that it would be good for them!

Agreed, but I will defend to the death the right to post rant threads!

 

[8ball]

My last place did for a bit.

Yep, lots of these places are nicey nicey during the fat years then conveniently turn into cunts when there's a bit of a downturn.

That's happening at my place at the mo - will be interesting to see how things pan out . . .

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Don't leave it for as long as I did to quit

 

[Groucho]

Probably not, but it might be useful in taking the fight to the bosses in a more constructive way. How many people are getting educated here - really this is jsut a ranting forum (for all of us). They've got a lot of ideas and they think the traditional left and anarchists have lost the plot, so why not get together and get out there and put the work in. They might be surprised, and it'd make them feel like they're not alone in the world. I'm not trying to be mean or argumentative here, I'm just getting bored of the impotent rage. I feel that it would be good for them!

But they only agree on what they are against - that the workers are all dullards and pillocks, that the left are fantasists and the Government and bosses are bastards. They would fall out if they started talking about solutions, splitting over whether to back a Conservative Government, organise a mass suicide pact or produce provocative lealets attacking workers for being too stupid to make a revolution.

 

[8ball]

Don't leave it for as long as I did to quit

I can't do anything else.

 

[poster342002]

But they only agree on what they are against - that the workers are all dullards and pillocks, that the left are fantasists and the Government and bosses are bastards. They would fall out if they started talking about solutions, splitting over whether to back a Conservative Government, organise a mass suicide pact or produce provocative lealets attacking workers for being too stupid to make a revolution.

Another helpful, well-thought out post, there.

And we've certainly never said what I've bolded in your post above.

 

[poster342002]

nope they are not, ive only been working in admin for three years and can defo see where youre coming from!

I note the above poster (thanks btw) concurrs with what I've said too.

 

[audiotech]

Only the other day someone said to me in a proud manner: 'I've never taken back my lieu time'. I sat there and thought 'lying twat'.

 

[poster342002]

Only the other day someone said to me in a proud manner: 'I've never taken back my lieu time'. I sat there and thought 'lying twat'.

Does it occur to you that they might, sadly, be telling the truth?

I know the left find's it hard to believe, but there really are workplaces stuffed full of people who are proud to throw away their hard-won rights.

 

[bluestreak]

You actually hate the left for its failures more than you hate the right for its sucesses, don't you?

The right has the power and the money and the media and the guns. Give the left a chance, all they've got are tatty anoraks and the power of socialist righteousness.

 

[Dravinian]

I been sacked that I can clearly remember off the top of my head at least 3 times for working to rule.

I don't do overtime, unless I get paid for it. I don't do jobs outside of my job description.

I worked for Burberries once, as an assistant data entry clerk, I had a supervisor who did EXACTLY the same job as me, sat right next to me too, nice lady, she had one job that I didn't do, she came in an hour early to turn on the MAinframe and she stayed an hour late to turn it off. She got paid more then I did. When she went on holiday for two weeks they expected me to come in early and stay late, I asked if I was gettnig overtime, they said no, I said, well I ain't coming in early then and I am not staying late and for two weeks the entire firm started an hour later and shut an hour early, soon as she came back they sacked me, but I kind of expected it.

Another one I worked for a company that supplied Satellite TV to cruise ships, tiny little firm just two blokes, and they hired me, after about 4 weeks, one of them asked me to clean the toilet, I told him to hire a cleaner, he said they all do it cause its a small firm, I told him to get busy then.

Didn't last long there either.

The last one was for a Rubber company, I was the lab technician, they asked me to sweep the factory cause the MD was on his way over, I refused, they sacked me.

The good thing about being sacked is you can go sign on immediately, and it isn't gross misconduct to refuse to do work outside of your job description or contract or to refuse to do overtime without pay. I know, that Rubber company tried to pull that shit with me and the social, they backed down as soon as I threatened them with a tribunal for lying to the social.

Work to rule, everyone should do it.

 

[poster342002]

You actually hate the left for its failures more than you hate the right for its sucesses, don't you?

Well ... would'nt you hate an incompetant Doctor (who couldn't even get a dose of aspirin right) more than the disease that was killing you?

It's the wilful and deliberate stupidity of much of the left that pisses me off. The pigheaded refusal to look facts in the face becuase they're just too awful and instead retreat into a comforting "brillient!" "massive resistance!" "workers are on the march!" delusional crap that just allows everything to get worse and worse..

 

[poster342002]

Work to rule, everyone should do it.

Exactly. It's no good if it's just one person who sticks their neck out all the time.

 

[scalyboy]

FFS, I've just had to listen AGAIN to someone crapping on about how good it is that we now have to be "flexible and adaptable" and do all the fucking work (without any extra pay - in fact we've been on a pay freeze for years) that's been left behind after countless staffing cuts.

"it's new and modern business practises" is the closest they could coem to backing up just how these are "a good thing". Of course, I was the ONLY one to even challnge them on it and just made myself look like an old fashioned, out of date lefty ranter.

This all sounds very similar to where I work. You have my sympathies! It makes me seethe when I hear our management come out with that tired old "flexible and adaptable" line - like it applies to them! We have just lost a large chunk of funding and as a result staff cuts are round the corner, and as a colleague observed, "management don't sack themselves do they?" Those of us lucky enough to survive the cull will be asked to be ever more "flexible" and "adaptable" in taking on extra unpaid work in order to take up the slack...gaah.

The other thing you mentioned that struck a chord, was how no-one speaks up at meetings etc, even though everyone's happy to whinge to each other in private...so that when I did make some criticisms recently, none of my colleagues backed me up - and I looked like an out-of-date left-wing malcontent who wanted to take us all back to the 1970s! Apparently I am out of touch because these days the modern worker is "flexible" and "realistic".

I'm actually off today but can feel my blood pressure rising just thinking about it.

Christ, if these sort of people had been slaves under the Romans they'd have been calling for more floggings!

I'm so sick of everyone being proud of their servility.

Spot on

 

[bluestreak]

Poster, that post was so smug it actually made me angry. You're the only person with the answers but you won't give them to us or do anything about it. You're as much of the problem as the left you despise.

 

[dennisr]

This all sounds very similar to where I work. You have my sympathies! It makes me seethe when I hear our management come out with that tired old "flexible and adaptable" line - like it applies to them! ...

You are right. A lot of what poster says touches a nerve with most folk who have ever worked for a living. We've all been there a few times.

The problem is that folk like poster just sit there seething and saying its all hopeless - they are 'still there'.

The problem is that behaving like a rabbit does not change just because that rabbit is aware of the headlights coming towards him/her. The rabbit still gets run over.

Among the many, many things that piss me off are whingers who condemn everyone who dares to not only recognise what is going on around them but attempts - in whatever limited way they see - to do something about it. Like someone ele said on this thread - the whingers remain part of the problem

 

[dennisr]

Exactly. It's no good if it's just one person who sticks their neck out all the time.

Be honest though - When folk like me do stick our necks out ejets like you leave us isolated because you re too bloody scared to join us. ("it's all hopeless")

What I think you are really angry about is your own cowardice, poster - you just project that onto others

 

[poster342002]

Be honest though - When folk like me do stick our necks out ejets like you leave us isolated because you re too bloody scared to join us.

That's untrue. I've always been the first to back anyone up if they do stand up at work.

What I am critical of is when the only ones doing so are the ones in the TU office who then kid themselves that the (correct) noises they're making are being picked up by and resonating with the workforce as a whole. They invariable aren't and the left needs to get to grips with why this is and how it can be changed.

I don't see any movement in this direction, however. I just see leftists claiming all this militancy exists when it's largely a figment of their imagination and the stark reality is that total capitulation to the employers is the norm except in one or two unrepresentative areas that the left likes to think is representaive of the wider situation.

We're going down the shithole with more and more workplaces becoming willing serfs while the left (which is largely isolated and immune from the process) refuses to acknowledge this is happening and, thus, cannot formulate any sort of remedial plan. THAT'S what's happening and it stinks.

 

[poster342002]

You are right. A lot of what poster says touches a nerve with most folk who have ever worked for a living. We've all been there a few times.

And it's far more widespread than the left acknowledges.

 

[audiotech]

Does it occur to you that they might, sadly, be telling the truth?

In this case definately no and many more likewise.

 

[_angel_]

Only the other day someone said to me in a proud manner: 'I've never taken back my lieu time'. I sat there and thought 'lying twat'.

A lot of willy waving goes on about having to work long hours. In this country how many hours you work is seen as some kind of subliminal 'how big is your dick' kind of game.

In other countries working longer hours is seen as a sign of failure - that you haven't managed to do your work in time.

 

[poster342002]

The other thing you mentioned that struck a chord, was how no-one speaks up at meetings etc, even though everyone's happy to whinge to each other in private...so that when I did make some criticisms recently, none of my colleagues backed me up - and I looked like an out-of-date left-wing malcontent who wanted to take us all back to the 1970s! Apparently I am out of touch because these days the modern worker is "flexible" and "realistic".

Yep - this is what I've experienced pretty much wherever I've worked. Odd how the worker is expected to be "flexible and realistic" but it's considered perfectly acceptabel for manaegemnt to do what the hell they like. Oh, but the go-getting ass-pirational fuckers have earned the right to carry on like that, you see. Nobody can even see the inherant hypocrisy in this.

 

[scalyboy]

You are right. A lot of what poster says touches a nerve with most folk who have ever worked for a living. We've all been there a few times.

The problem is that folk like poster just sit there seething and saying its all hopeless - they are 'still there'.

The problem is that behaving like a rabbit does not change just because that rabbit is aware of the headlights coming towards him/her. The rabbit still gets run over.

Among the many, many things that piss me off are whingers who condemn everyone who dares to not only recognise what is going on around them but attempts - in whatever limited way they see - to do something about it. Like someone ele said on this thread - the whingers remain part of the problem

One answer is to join or become more involved in a union (although I appreciate that many people work for firms which are non-union, and any attempts to unionize leads to sacking - my previous job was one such).

That said, there is a limit to what a union can achieve, IME, because of anti-TU legislation, and also the individual stewards themselves.

 

[poster342002]

One answer is to join or become more involved in a union (although I appreciate that many people work for firms which are non-union, and any attempts to unionize leads to sacking - my previous job was one such).

That said, there is a limit to what a union can achieve, IME, because of anti-TU legislation, and also the individual stewards themselves.

Also, when the entrenched attitude of the workforce is so reactionary, all that getting active in the union does is ... nothing at best. You just get drawn into endless floorwalks, maildrops, envelope stuffing, meeting-atending - all of it utterly ignored by the rest of the workforce. You just briefly feel that you're "doing something" but quickly grow demoralised when you realise that NO-ONE is coming with you and the only people talking the same language as you are the small handfull of reps if you're lucky.

They probably could repeal all the anti-union laws now and fuck-all would happen - because the culture in the workplace has been totally fucked and there is no trade-unionism at grassroots level anymore.

 

[glenquagmire]

there is no trade-unionism at grassroots level anymore.

In your workplace.

 

[poster342002]

In your workplace.

Or any I've ever worked in.

I stopped believing that I just happened to be working in uncommonly scabby workplaces years ago.

There's now also a whole new generation that's entered the workforce with no comprehension of standing up together for their workplace rights. Instead, it's all about individualistic, ass-pirational corporate ladderclimbing for them.

 

[glenquagmire]

Unlucky Alf eh?

Fortunately the day to day activity here at work tells me that your experiences are by no means universal.

 

[poster342002]

Fortunately the day to day activity here at work tells me that your experiences are by no means universal.

It's invariably long-term activists such as yourself who tell me that. I've yet to hear this from any person "on the floor" as it were.

 

[glenquagmire]

Have we met?

I've been a union member for 2 years and a shop steward for all of 1 and a half years, and am still in my full-time job, thanks very much.

In that time we've got from 20% membership density to 50% and will be taking secondary action in support of colleagues in the same building next week.

Just goes to show what can be done. If you can be bothered, that is.

Long-term activist my arse.