People who should be taken off the road...

[Agent Sparrow]

I don't jump red lights on my bike, though there are times when I'm waiting at lights, and all these other cyclists are (entirely safely) going through the red, and I feel a bit foolish. Re: those instances, I do somtimes think that the people who moan at the red light jumpers just want an excuse to moan at cyclists. But then a minority do go through them really irresponsibly, and collective mud understandably sticks. Meh

What personally annoys me is when the cyclist you've overtaken multiple times, goes past the (pretty empty) cycle box where you're waiting at the lights and stops the other side of the crossing, meaning that when the lights go, you have to overtake them on a busy road AGAIN.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

I'd like to see the law changed to make it permissable for pedestrians to attempt to knock off cunts who jump reds on a bike. I'm fed up of having to look left and right before crossing, WHEN THE FUCKING GREEN MAN IS LIT. In the very near future I'm going to accidentally polearm one of the bastards off their bike.

Hmm, that reminds me of an interesting thing I saw the other day. Cyclist went through a red light (admittedly with caution) where peds were crossing and a guy shouted at him. But all peds were crossing when it was still a red man. So, strictly speaking, both were in the wrong, though I'm sure the shouting ped didn't even consider that.

There are definitely instances where peds cross when the lights for vehicles are green and make bikes and cars stop - Vauxhall station is particularly bad for this. Admittedly a ped can't knock someone over and hurt them (unless it's very intentional), but it is annoying.

 

[stupid dogbot]

And then there's the fucking middle aged idiots on superbikes...

I've just had the bulk of a 20 mile ride home behind a complete twat on a Fireblade who spent an inordinatinely large amount of time on the wrong side of the road, several times causing oncoming traffic to have to move over (or kill him, I suppose) and often without any apparent reason.



I pulled up at the lights alongside him, expecting to see a young kid. He looked like a grandfather.

Total cock.

 

[Lemon Eddy]

there are times when I'm waiting at lights, and all these other cyclists are (entirely safely) going through the red, and I feel a bit foolish

There is no time when you can entirely safely run a red. If I said that when I was driving my car, there were times it was safe to run a red,people would call me a tosser. Just because if I do it on a bike I'm less likely to kill someone does not make it right.

If someone disagrees with a law, lobby people to get it changed. Join the CTC, look for a group with the same agenda, work on it. They should not just conclude they're some sort of special case for whom normal rules do not apply, unless they're going to be equally happy if I conclude rules on assault should not apply for me, and slap them to the ground.

 

[editor]

There is no time when you can entirely safely run a red.

Well, you can if you're turning left at 4am at a well lit junction with ne'er a soul or a vehicle for miles around.

I'd probably still wait for the lights to change though.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

There is no time when you can entirely safely run a red. If I said that when I was driving my car, there were times it was safe to run a red,people would call me a tosser. Just because if I do it on a bike I'm less likely to kill someone does not make it right.

No, there really are times when you can entirely safely run a red. For example, on a quiet straight road where a ped has pushed the button and then crossed ages ago, so there are no peds on the pavement anywhere near, and no traffic from side roads that have right of way. Whether or not that means people should do it is another matter. I stop, but then just feel very stupid having stopped when the road is totally or almost empty.

Btw, whilst I don't run reds, I do think there is a massive difference between a car doing it, and a bike doing it. And whilst being less likely to kill someone might not make it "right", it is something that is fair to add to the assessment of the situation. Besides, IME cars have gone through reds too, because they've put their food down when they've seen the amber, when I've stopped correctly.

I also hope that car drivers who moan at cyclists who go through reds never stop in the cycle box, or disregard a cyclist's right of way because they're the bigger vehicle, or pass too closely etc. Because I think the reason a lot of cyclists do run red lights as a "perk" is because their actual rights are disregarded a fair amount of the time.

 

[Lemon Eddy]

I think the reason a lot of cyclists do run red lights as a "perk" is because their actual rights are disregarded a fair amount of the time.

Everyone can use the actions of others to justify their own behaviour. I'd imagine the motorists who act as if cyclists have no place on the road justify their own stupidity by talking about "bloody cyclists, they all ignore red lights, fuck 'em I say"

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Everyone can use the actions of others to justify their own behaviour. I'd imagine the motorists who act as if cyclists have no place on the road justify their own stupidity by talking about "bloody cyclists, they all ignore red lights, fuck 'em I say"

And that's the problem, and incidentally, that is one of the main reasons why I don't run reds. If I obay all the rules, I can't be used as an example of those "bloody cyclists". Although I'm sure my waiting at reds is probably ignored by some, who are concentrating on those who don't.

However, as you pointed out yourself, cars are a lot more potentially dangerous than bikes, and it is really bloody annoying when rules for cyclists' safety are just ignored by drivers, through not thinking at best, and a desire to intimidate at worst. It's not surprising when cyclists then do things that they perceive as making them safer.

 

[sim667]

sleeping policeman

they should be a bit more fucking considerate where they snooze

 

[stupid dogbot]

Fwiw, I'll have precisely fuck all sympathy for cyclist who get knocked off having gone through a red light. Hope it was worth those extra fractions of a second...

 

[T & P]

He'll be one of those people who think they "know best" when it comes to deciding safe speed limits.

Sadly, there's an awful of of those cunts about.

Originally Posted by Lemon Eddy
There is no time when you can entirely safely run a red.

Well, you can if you're turning left at 4am at a well lit junction with ne'er a soul or a vehicle for miles around.

Anyone else see the irony here?

 

[gentlegreen]

me.

 

[tarannau]

Anyone else see the irony here?

Do you understand what irony means?

 

[T & P]

I thought I did, but perhaps you can correct me.

You don't think someone stating that anyone who claims to be able to know what constitutes a safe speed is a 'know-it-all cunt', only to state moments later that it is possible to entirely safely run a red light, as the dictionary definition of irony?

Perhaps I should have used 'hypocrisy' instead?

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Tbf, speeding kills more frequently than red light running on a bike. But there is a similarity with both, in that a sensible person is perfectly able to make a fair judgement and be safe, but an idiot could cause an accident. That, I guess, is the problem, and the reason for the rules in the first place.

 

[Upchuck]

I just hate the bastards and they do give cyclists a bad name. Riding a scooter now waiting at the lights 80-90% of cyclists stop but there are always 1 or 2 that just zip straight through without slowing down when the road is for peds, and generally another couple that wobble across but also on red. You can see by the body language of the waiting cyclists that they despise the pricks too.

 

[T & P]

Tbf, speeding kills more frequently than red light running on a bike. But there is a similarity with both, in that a sensible person is perfectly able to make a fair judgement and be safe, but an idiot could cause an accident. That, I guess, is the problem, and the reason for the rules in the first place.

Agree entirely. But it is certainly every bit as possible to drive safely on motorways above the speed limit in some situations (which is something that has been contested very hotly by editor and others on the thread in General) as it is to jump a red light- like you say it depends on the circumstances.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Actually on my current commute, 80-90% of cyclists do jump red lights, but only when there's no peds crossing. And I've gone from feeling cross about it on principle, to actually realising that most of the time (IME) it is safely done.

So, meh - as I said, when it is safely done, I think a lot of the hatred is due to other vehicle users thinking "I can't do that so I'll hate them for it", and peds thinking "how inconsiderate", when they're not actually crossing themselves, and probably cross on the red man themselves at times.

 

[Upchuck]

I think drivers get fed up with cyclists wanting (well they should have it really) equal road rights and then having the arrogance not to operate on the roads in a legal fashion.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Agree entirely. But it is certainly every bit as possible to drive safely on motorways above the speed limit in some situations (which is something that has been contested very hotly by editor and others on the thread in General) as it is to jump a red light- like you say it depends on the circumstances.

Yeah, I know people who speed down the motorway, and I feel completely safe with them - safer sometimes than drivers who are doing the speed limit, but who just don't feel as assured.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

I think drivers get fed up with cyclists bleating for equal road rights and then having the arrogance not to operate on the roads in a legal fashion.

So, what comes first? I have heard some cyclists say they will jump reds because car drivers are almost always in the cycle box. I certainly had to go up to the bit where people cross recently for my own safety, because some twat in a lorry had stopped entirely in the cycle box.

The thing is that a substantial minority of drivers don't give cyclists equal rights. Yes, it might be difficult to know what comes first, but one is in a box of metal that can move at 30mph and is much more likely to cause death than the other.

 

[turing test]

I think drivers get fed up with cyclists wanting (well they should have it really) equal road rights and then having the arrogance not to operate on the roads in a legal fashion.

Oh god not this shit again.

 

[Upchuck]

I have not been on the roads for ages, and now I am on a scooter the behaviour of some cyclists leaves me shocked and saddened, and gives the cycling collective as a whole a bad name. You wait at the lights and then some prick glides through, through the lights calm as you like, leaving themself at risk of being hit or hitting others. Selfish madness.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Right, they're actually always at risk of hitting something else? (i.e. there are peds crossing and/or another lot of traffic is filtered through) Or, being honest with yourself, are there times when actually it's more to do with the fact you

wait at the lights

As I said, I think sometimes non cyclists pick up on cyclists breaking rules, not because there's actually any danger in the exact circumstances they're getting pissed off about, but because they're annoyed that a cyclist is doing things they can't. I agree that when there is a real risk of hitting someone, then any cyclist who doesn't wait is being a prick.

And sometimes, the non cyclist actually gets the rules wrong. As happened when a ped was very aggressive with me for joining a pavement 1 metre before the obvious cycle lane, despite the fact that closer inspection would have shown the blue ped and cycle signs were already in effect, and there was a less visable but exisiting cycle lane where I picked it up

 

[stupid dogbot]

Everyone's got a justification for their behaviour, whilst having a go at other road users...

Selfish road use is selfish road use, whatever the vehicle.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Everyone's got a justification for their behaviour, whilst having a go at other road users...

Selfish road use is selfish road use, whatever the vehicle.

Tbh, can't disagree with that. It's just interesting why certain road users and misuses get more stick though.

 

[stupid dogbot]

Tbh, can't disagree with that. It's just interesting why certain road users and misuses get more stick though.

Indeed. I'm on the cyclists' side by and large, two-wheeled solidarity I guess. Oh, and I see far more problems caused by cars than most other road users on the whole, I reckon.

Still, take care, eh?

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Personally, I'm actually really anal about obaying official road rules. I'm just fighting other people's battles here.

 

[editor]

Personally, I'm actually really anal about obaying official road rules. I'm just fighting other people's battles here.

I am as well, to be honest, even if I do feel a bit of a chump when I'm stuck at lights and hordes of cyclists are whizzing past.

It would be a good idea to make it legal for cyclists to SLOWLY take a left turn at red if it is safe to do so and giving full priority to people crossing the street (like in New York).

 

[likesfish]

cyclists without lights when its dark.
"but theres enough light for me to see by"
its about you being seen by others cock

mind you jaywalking at certain times should be punished as well