PCS conference: is there a thread?

[Guineveretoo]

For the millionth time, it's worth pointing out that just about NOBODY in his work area took part in the strike and just about EVERYBODY scabbed apart from the branch officials. That's indicative of something very wrong and indicates a total lack of TU conciousness in that perticular workplace. It's no good having ago at kbj: the problem was/is endemic and entrencend.

That's because he defined his work area as being his friends who scabbed! If you looked at the whole work area, it was a lot more successful.

I am having a go at keyboard jockey, because he simply won't stop repeating the same old nonsense. PCS is no longer anything to do with him, so why doesn't he just walk away?

 

[cockneyrebel]

I was reading the other day about someone who went into a workforce and built a branch of 5 to over 100. Fair enough it takes someone with character and charisma and someone prepared to put in a hard slog but it can be done.

The trouble with KBJ is he is totally demoralised, downbeat and says vote Boris Johnson. Whatever the reasons that have made him like that he doesn't seem like a loss to the PCS. He has lost any fight in his life, and while that may be sad for him personally, it probably means that he should remain silent rather than drag everyone else down with him.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

I don't scream liar, though, do I? I spent ages trying to help you, and you did nothing.

But you persist with the lies, and I know they are lies, and I can't simply leave them stated, because people who don't know you might not realise the truth.

PCS has been poor in your workplace because of you and your scabbing friends, mate! You were that union, remember?

No you advised me to stick with PCS and I did as you advised. I approached Branch officials with masses of enthusiasm only to be brushed off. After that I certainly was not in the mood knowing what I knew about how the union had behaved to us and its attitude to its members to start standing for election as branch sec which IIRC was another piece of your advice. PCS may be fabululous in some workplaces but in ours it was piss poor.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Gosh, you really don't understand what you type, do you?

It was up to you to support that strike, and you didn't.

The strike was so obviously going to be poorly supported that I didn't see why I shoudl lose a days money for a futile cause.

 

[Guineveretoo]

I'm not going to stoop to the level of calling another poster names at this point but what I will say is maybe she is considerably mistaken and misinformed as to the situation in my particular department.

You know this is not the case. I know a hell of a lot about what is happening in your department, including how many people have been made redundant, and why, in each case. I also know exactly what the three recognised unions have been doing to ensure that no-one (yes, that's right, no-one) has been dismissed on grounds of redundancy, other than those who wanted to go with the package available.

 

[Guineveretoo]

I was reading the other day about someone who went into a workforce and built a branch of 5 to over 100. Fair enough it takes someone with character and charisma and someone prepared to put in a hard slog but it can be done.

The trouble with KBJ is he is totally demoralised, downbeat and says vote Boris Johnson. Whatever the reasons that have made him like that he doesn't seem like a loss to the PCS. He has lost any fight in his life, and while that may be sad for him personally, it probably means that he should remain silent rather than drag everyone else down with him.

Agreed.

 

[poster342002]

I also think that a lot of TU activists end up with a totally false impression of the levels support for the union. This arises from spending large amounts of time in the TU room or at various meetings with like-minded people and their main contact with the members being at poorly-attended members'' meetings and floorwalks. They just don't see the levels of Corproate Stockholm Syndrome in action.

 

[cockneyrebel]

No you advised me to stick with PCS and I did as you advised. I approached Branch officials with masses of enthusiasm only to be brushed off. After that I certainly was not in the mood knowing what I knew about how the union had behaved to us and its attitude to its members to start standing for election as branch sec which IIRC was another piece of your advice. PCS may be fabululous in some workplaces but in ours it was piss poor.

I've worked in branches where the branch officials were crap, so you fight against them and try and get them replaced. But you won't do that because you're a beaten down person and as you say "you're not in the mood" to fight. Fair enough, but now stay quiet and stop trying to bring others in to your depressive bubble to make yourself feel better.

I'm sure the GMB will be delighted to have you on board. Now get round to actually doing something rather than continually blaming others.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

That's because he defined his work area as being his friends who scabbed! If you looked at the whole work area, it was a lot more successful.

Again a mistake. It wasn't just my immediate unit it was my whole directorate.

I am having a go at keyboard jockey, because he simply won't stop repeating the same old nonsense. PCS is no longer anything to do with him, so why doesn't he just walk away?

I have walked away from PCS and it saddens me that it had to come to this.

PCS has systemic problems that me standing for Branch sec wouldn't have cured. Its up to the members now to sort it out.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

You know this is not the case. I know a hell of a lot about what is happening in your department, including how many people have been made redundant, and why, in each case. I also know exactly what the three recognised unions have been doing to ensure that no-one (yes, that's right, no-one) has been dismissed on grounds of redundancy, other than those who wanted to go with the package available.

Tell that to the people who didn't want to be made redundant but who have been.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I also think that a lot of TU activists end up with a totally false impression of the levels support for the union. This arises from spending large amounts of time in the TU room or at various meetings with like-minded people and their main contact with the members being at poorly-attended members' meetings and floorwalks.

Can anybody see how the end of this passage contradicts the start?

 

[Guineveretoo]

No you advised me to stick with PCS and I did as you advised. I approached Branch officials with masses of enthusiasm only to be brushed off. After that I certainly was not in the mood knowing what I knew about how the union had behaved to us and its attitude to its members to start standing for election as branch sec which IIRC was another piece of your advice. PCS may be fabululous in some workplaces but in ours it was piss poor.

I did not advise you stand as Branch Secretary! I suggested that, if there was no decent rep in your work area, you should consider standing as that.

I also gave you the name of the PCS full time official and the organiser, both of whom would have helped you to find a way of supporting PCS and organising in your work area.

I don't think PCS are fabulous in your department, and I know why that is, too. I can't go into that without giving away which department it is, so I won't. But I also know that there are some very hard working branch officials, who are battling against all the odds to defend members' jobs, and are doing so really well, considering how little support they are getting from the grassroots.

I advised you to stay with PCS because a union really needs its members, and I thought you wanted to continue to show solidarity, and because you may need them if your job is threatened. At the time, you were talking about joining UNISON, which was crazy. I note that you have joined GMB, but they can do nothing for you if your job is under threat. I repeat in case you still haven't worked it out, nothing!

 

[Guineveretoo]

Tell that to the people who didn't want to be made redundant but who have been.

There aren't any. At least, no union members.

 

[poster342002]

I've worked in branches where the branch officials were crap, so you fight against them and try and get them replaced. But you won't do that because you're a beaten down person and as you say "you're not in the mood" to fight.

It's also a nigh-on impossible task when the crap reps are combined with totally apathethetic and rightwing membership at grassroots levels. Beleive me: I've been there often enough to know what kbj's gone through and that there's often precuious little you can do to change anything. A lot of workplaces are just terminally fucked, tu-wise.

 

[belboid]

KBJ - you are a scab and a liar. No one with any interest in building up successful unions should listen to you or your right-wing 'customer' based unionism. You know full well you will never ever be on another civil service picket line, but try and pretend you think otherwise so you can maintain some 'pro-union' image. Whereas the simple fact is you have agreed to scab on every action called.

Posters comments are funny, especially coming from someone who admits he has never managed to convince a single person of the benefits of being in a union. His image of what union activists actually get up to is almost hilarious - I've never even seen a 'TU room', let alone spent any time on one. His is just a pessimistic version of why nothing is worth any effort, and we may as well just give in.

 

[Geoff Collier]

A question from outside the civil service - one day last week, which would have been during PCS conference, I bought a Morning Star. It was advertising fringe events at PCS jointly hosted by them and something called Unity. Now, what is Unity? Is it a faction inside PCS of which I haven't heard before?

 

[poster342002]

KBJ - you are a scab and a liar. No one with any interest in building up successful unions should listen to you or your right-wing 'customer' based unionism. You know full well you will never ever be on another civil service picket line, but try and pretend you think otherwise so you can maintain some 'pro-union' image. Whereas the simple fact is you have agreed to scab on every action called.

Posters comments are funny, especially coming from someone who admits he has never managed to convince a single person of the benefits of being in a union. His image of what union activists actually get up to is almost hilarious - I've never even seen a 'TU room', let alone spent any time on one. His is just a pessimistic version of why nothing is worth any effort, and we may as well just give in.

Carry on living in a deluded fairytale, then.

Yes - the reality outside of it is harsh and I myself used to spout the same stuff as you and others are doing here. The scales dropped from my eyes about 10 years ago.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

I did not advise you stand as Branch Secretary! I suggested that, if there was no decent rep in your work area, you should consider standing as that.

My mistake it was rep you advised me to stand for.

I also gave you the name of the PCS full time official and the organiser, both of whom would have helped you to find a way of supporting PCS and organising in your work area.

So when you have a shit union who doesn't back their members the answer is to go back for more of the same? Good idea if you've never been caught in that trap before. I got shafted by the NUJ many years ago so as you can understand I'm understandably wary about putting my trust in an org that has let me down and let my colleauges down.

I advised you to stay with PCS because a union really needs its members, and I thought you wanted to continue to show solidarity, and because you may need them if your job is threatened. At the time, you were talking about joining UNISON, which was crazy. I note that you have joined GMB, but they can do nothing for you if your job is under threat. I repeat in case you still haven't worked it out, nothing!

Loyalty is a two way street. The union was perceptably not on our side so why should we be on theres.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

KBJ - you are a scab and a liar. No one with any interest in building up successful unions should listen to you or your right-wing 'customer' based unionism. You know full well you will never ever be on another civil service picket line, but try and pretend you think otherwise so you can maintain some 'pro-union' image. Whereas the simple fact is you have agreed to scab on every action called.

Posters comments are funny, especially coming from someone who admits he has never managed to convince a single person of the benefits of being in a union. His image of what union activists actually get up to is almost hilarious - I've never even seen a 'TU room', let alone spent any time on one. His is just a pessimistic version of why nothing is worth any effort, and we may as well just give in.

I might have been a reluctant scab but I'm certainly not a liar. There has been an exodus from the union over the issue of reduncancy.

 

[belboid]

Carry on living in a deluded fairytale, then.

Yes - the reality outside of it is harsh and I myself used to spout the same stuff as you and others are doing here. The sales dropped from my eyes about 10 years ago.

The reality is more like it is you that is a failure. If you cant convince a single person to join, that seems rather more like a problem with your method of argument. Now you are defending scabbing, won't be long before you are doing it.

 

[belboid]

I might have been a reluctant scab but I'm certainly not a liar. There has been an exodus from the union over the issue of reduncancy.

well, at least you admit you're a scab.

 

[cockneyrebel]

I also think that a lot of TU activists end up with a totally false impression of the levels support for the union. This arises from spending large amounts of time in the TU room or at various meetings with like-minded people and their main contact with the members being at poorly-attended members'' meetings and floorwalks. They just don't see the levels of Corproate Stockholm Syndrome in action.

This may be true of some but not of others. Everyone in my branch knows we have a slog to build the branch and to get members confidence up. But that certainly won't happen my moping around. Union branches have been built loads of time out of very hard conditions but as said it takes someone with energy, charisma and who can take the knocks.

It's also a nigh-on impossible task when the crap reps are combined with totally apathethetic and rightwing membership at grassroots levels. Beleive me: I've been there often enough to know what kbj's gone through and that there's often precuious little you can do to change anything. A lot of workplaces are just terminally fucked, tu-wise.

As with KBJ you are in a mind set of apathy and negativity. Fair enough, that's ashame for both of you. But your constant negativity doesn't do anything but make you both feel better about your own impotence. The best thing you can do is stay silent and hope others can do better than you.

Neither of you will help trade union or any other struggle, you've lost the will to fight and have given up. So now just leave it to others to give things a go.

 

[poster342002]

This may be true of some but not of others. Everyone in my branch knows we have a slog to build the branch and to get members confidence up. But that certainly won't happen my moping around. Union branches have been built loads of time out of very hard conditions but as said it takes someone with energy, charisma and who can take the knocks.



As with KBJ you are in a mind set of apathy and negativity. Fair enough, that's ashame for both of you. But your constant negativity doesn't do anything but make you both feel better about your own impotence. The best thing you can do is stay silent and hope others can do better than you.

Neither of you will help trade union or any other struggle, you've lost the will to fight and have given up. So now just leave it to others to give things a go.

Yes, I can sit back and watch a whole new (increasingly small) batch of people have a go and fail at the same old tactics as the last batch all over again.

 

[Guineveretoo]

A question from outside the civil service - one day last week, which would have been during PCS conference, I bought a Morning Star. It was advertising fringe events at PCS jointly hosted by them and something called Unity. Now, what is Unity? Is it a faction inside PCS of which I haven't heard before?

Unity is another trade union. It used to be called CATU.

 

[poster342002]

The reality is more like it is you that is a failure. If you cant convince a single person to join, that seems rather more like a problem with your method of argument. Now you are defending scabbing, won't be long before you are doing it.

And I guess it was King Cnute's fault that he couldn't convince a single wave of the tide to turn back?

Secondly: I'm not defending scabbing. I've gone on at length on here at how angry I get when the whole sodding workplace merrily scabs it's way into work on strike days - as it ALWAYS does EVERY FUCKING TIME there's a strike on, in all my working life's experience. What makes me even angrier is the pigheaded reluctance of theleft to accpet this is happening.

 

[Geoff Collier]

Unity is another trade union. It used to be called CATU.

The former Ceramic and Allied Trade Union, based in Stoke hosted a fringe event at PCS conference in Brighton? Seems a bit unlikely but if true I hope they provided some oatcakes for the attendees.

 

[Guineveretoo]

The former Ceramic and Allied Trade Union, based in Stoke hosted a fringe event at PCS conference in Brighton? Seems a bit unlikely but if true I hope they provided some oatcakes for the attendees.

It's quite common for trade unions to team up in fringe meetings relating to specific issues of joint interest.

 

[Geoff Collier]

It's quite common for trade unions to team up in fringe meetings relating to specific issues of joint interest.

Quite possibly, although I don't remember it happening at the TGWU BDCs that I attended. Its probably not quite so common to host a joint meeting with the Morning Star. Do you know what specifis issue might have jointly interested them?

 

[Guineveretoo]

You were the one who heard about the fringe meeting. I was only telling you who Unity are, and that it is common for trade unions to host fringe meetings jointly. I don't know what a BDC is, but I have been at a TGWU conference where they invited guest speakers to their fringe meetings.

 

[dennisr]

I might have been a reluctant scab but I'm certainly not a liar. There has been an exodus from the union over the issue of reduncancy.

'the reluctant scab' (i can see a novel coming out of this) that and 'the depressive cunt' (poster thingywatsit)