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PC and Mac pricing trends...

PC machines cannot cope with my demands without crashing and generating unreadable geek codes by way of explaining why they crash.

All three of my Macs cope fine.

Even my 2003 Powerbook is more sturdy than any PC I have had the miserable misfortune to try and work with.

Never, ever use a PC to try and work with hi-def video, unless you are prepared to spend stupid money to get them half as reliable as Macs are.
 
PC machines cannot cope with my demands without crashing and generating unreadable geek codes by way of explaining why they crash.

All three of my Macs cope fine.

Even my 2003 Powerbook is more sturdy than any PC I have had the miserable misfortune to try and work with.

Never, ever use a PC to try and work with hi-def video, unless you are prepared to spend stupid money to get them half as reliable as Macs are.

10.5.2 has been the most unstable platform I've ever had the misfortune to work with.

Probably ok on it's own but stick it in a business environment where it has to mix with Windows servers/clients and it's terrible.
 
Well, we are on .4 at the moment.

We've got a number of test machines on 10.5.4 and still they sometimes take ten minutes to log in, known problem with DHCP that Apple are looking into.

Also, printing has always been a problem.

I like Macs but stick them into a Windows environment and they fail more often that not.

10.4 never caused a problem but as soon as we upgraded to 10.5 I've been inundated with problems.
 
I have nothing helpful to say there. Whenever I have had to access a network with Windows machines I just say "where are the printers?" and it says "here they are" and I say "okay, print to that one then" and it says "fine". Apart from that I just ssh between different machines which also always works.
 
I always had problems with the Mac network at the university I was teaching at a few years ago. Used to drive me fucking mad.

Mind you, there's not much that can compare with the living hell that was trying to get Windows 95 to work on a network. Come to think of it, W98 wasn't much better either.
 
I always had problems with the Mac network at the university I was teaching at a few years ago. Used to drive me fucking mad.

That was in the very early days of OSX though... 8 years ago? More?
 
That was in the very early days of OSX though... 8 years ago? More?
It still happens for some folks (just like it happens to some Windows/Linux/whatever users): Eme had dreadful trouble with the Mac network where she was working only a few weeks ago.
 
Never, ever use a PC to try and work with hi-def video, unless you are prepared to spend stupid money to get them half as reliable as Macs are.

My HP Pavillion was bought to edit video, granted it was broadcast quality and not high def. Also used a high spec Acer, but it wasn't as nice a machine as the HP. Though we did stream and encode it on the fly and all without any problems at all. In fact I've never edited video on a Mac, not to say you can't just that i haven't.
 
My HP Pavillion was bought to edit video, granted it was broadcast quality and not high def. Also used a high spec Acer, but it wasn't as nice a machine as the HP. Though we did stream and encode it on the fly and all without any problems at all. In fact I've never edited video on a Mac, not to say you can't just that i haven't.

Try cutting hi-def, then rendering it out whilst running Photoshop and a Firefox browser on any laptop PC under it's own battery power.

dell-laptop-fire-1.jpg


Then try doing that on a Mac.

led39.jpg


That's the reason I'd happily pay three times more for a Mac, because I just can't do that sort of thing on a PC without wanting to set fire to it, if it doesn't set fire to itself in the struggle to do what I bought it to do.

And I'm not a fanboy, Apple stores are pretentious shite and so are half their products, but the high end stuff is infinitely more capable than any PC I have ever used, and I've used hundreds and hundreds.
 
Then try doing that on a Mac.
Did he say he wanted to "cut hi-def, then render it out whilst running Photoshop and a Firefox browser under its own battery power" (?!), or are you just dredging up this niche activity and illustrating it with totally irrelevant images just so you can drone on and on and on again about just how much better your think your precious fucking Mac is?
I'm not a fanboy.
LOL.

He's happy with his machine. You're clearly happy with yours. Both do what you want.

End of story.
 
Yeah well the point being that his machine in all likelyhood doesn't do what I want. And cutting hi-def video under battery power is hardly a niche activity, LOL!

He probably WILL need to progress to hi-def seeing as every semi pro camera on the market offers 1080i recordings.

Never heard of location work?

Come on Editor, I need a machine to do this reliably on a daily basis, only the 'fucking' Macbook Pro can, thus far, or I'd be happily using a PC for far less money.

I'm tempted to write to Apple, get them to donate you a Macbook, guaranteed you'd fuck all your PC gear off within a month.
 
Yeah well the point being that his machine in all likelyhood doesn't do what I want. And cutting hi-def video under battery power is hardly a niche activity, LOL!
So no Windows machines are capable of editing hi-def video under battery power, and if one did try it would probably "set fire to itself in the struggle to do what I bought it to do?"

Honestly mate, your obsession with slagging off PCs is bordering on embarrassing. If your Mac does what you want it to, that's great, but there's hundreds of millions of Windows users out there getting their work done too.
I'm tempted to write to Apple, get them to donate you a Macbook, guaranteed you'd fuck all your PC gear off within a month.
So you think I'm too stupid to buy the best gear for my job, despite working as a graphics professional - sometimes at the highest level - for well over a decade?

Now this is that kind of arrogant Apple fanboi-ism that really gets my goat.

I know far, far, far more than you when it comes to my own professional needs thanks.

I've used Macs. I've taught on Macs. I've designed on Macs. And they're fine machines. But get this - I actually prefer what I'm using right now, thanks.
 
So no Windows machines are capable of editing hi-def video under battery power, and if one did try it would probably "set fire to itself in the struggle to do what I bought it to do?"

No, they cant handle rendering hi-def, which can take hours, whilst being used to crop graphics and download pics off the web.
Which is far from a niche activity.
No pro PC hi-def system I have worked on has been connected to the net anyway, only a fool would expose a £10,000 PC system to the virus laden web.

Honestly mate, your obsession with slagging off PCs is bordering on embarrassing. If your Mac does what you want it to, that's great, but there's hundreds of millions of Windows users out there getting their work done too.

And your obsession with slagging off Macs is weirder, seeing as you arent using them and haven't done for presumably 8 years or more, and certainly not for video.
And as I have said, there's no Windows laptop that can fulfil my criteria, which is far from unique considering the growing hi-def market.

So you think I'm too stupid to buy the best gear for my job, despite working as a graphics professional - sometimes at the highest level - for well over a decade?

How come you always, without fail, invent some percieved slight when losing an argument?
I've not once called you stupid.
It's a strawman big enough to accomodate Edward Woodward.

Had you worked in the highest level of TV graphics for nearly 20 years, as I have, you would know that back then all pro-graphics were done using Mac or Amiga machines, or dedicated hardware costing tens of thousands.

And why are you rejecting my bitter experiences of trying to work on Windows machines?

Sure, they are cheaper. Great for games. Shit for my needs though.

Now this is that kind of arrogant Apple fanboi-ism that really gets my goat.

I know far, far, far more than you when it comes to my own professional needs thanks.

So why are you trying to tell me that Windows laptops are just as good as Macs for my pro needs when clearly, having used HUNDREDS, I can tell you they are not?
Aside from the fact you appear not to have even tried using a Mac for your needs in over 8 years.
[/QUOTE]

I've used Macs. I've taught on Macs. I've designed on Macs. And they're fine machines. But get this - I actually prefer what I'm using right now, thanks.

I've used Windows. Taught on them, worked on them, built entire TV series on them, several times over hundreds and hundreds of hours.
They are shit, and any money saved in the initial purchase is soon spent several times over in buying additional hardware and waiting for them to reboot after umpteen crashes.

It's a simple fact of life, and I can't see for the life of me why you always get so worked up about my opinion on this, seeing how I have worked more hours on trying to make Windows do the job than you have.

Just accept that although cheaper, Windows laptops cannot handle hi def video, which is my area of expertise, without spending more money than you would on a high end Mac. End of story.
 
Well Im not sure I entirely understand this high def argument. Given that modern Mac's hardware is extremely similar to PC's, a suitable PC is certainly not going to fail at this task due to a lack of grunt, or catch fire. A PC that is too low a spec would obviously struggle, but then so would an equivalent Mac.

The only sense I can make of this is if we are talking about software issues. I got quite annoyed with most of the Windows video editing software I tried between 3 and 10 years ago. But I expect there is software that is stable on Windows that will edit HD video quite nicely on the right machine. I chose to move to OS X because I liked the look of some of the apps, I was happy enough with the experience and so have invested my time and money in this area ever since. I kept buying Macs that were lower spec than I really needed, Ive finally got a Mac Pro so that I have enough power. But Ive put Windows Vista on it as well as OS X, and it hasnt melted yet ;)

Its not like Quicktime, Final Cut etc are without bugs or quirks that cause people to complain in support forums. Its not like my Macs have never ever frozen up.

And when it comes to pure performance, OS X is really not far ahead of WIndows - its better at some stuff and slower at other stuff.

And there is no blu-ray support for Macs yet, so its not like Apple have all the high-def bases covered. Im sure they will get there in the end, especially with the death of HD-DVD and the fact that Snow Leopard will be all about optimisation. And there's even the rumor that Apple will add hardware h264 encoding.decoding to future macs, which would help a bit.
 
Yeah well the point being that his machine in all likelyhood doesn't do what I want. And cutting hi-def video under battery power is hardly a niche activity, LOL!

He probably WILL need to progress to hi-def seeing as every semi pro camera on the market offers 1080i recordings.

Never heard of location work?

Course our cameras do high def, and the HPs can cope (i've never edited it though). All our location work is inside so there is always a plug point. I don't know what you want, but you should take a look at some of the high spec HPs if you are looking for a PC.

Either way it doesnt really matter. But PCs can cope IME.
 
No, they cant handle rendering hi-def, which can take hours, whilst being used to crop graphics and download pics off the web.
Are you sure you don't want to add a few more caveats to that?

Mind you, there's plenty of examples of schools, colleges and businesses using Windows for hi-def rendering, but who knows if they'd be busy "cropping pictures and downloading images at the time".

And the notion that there's a real risk of PCs catching fire trying to render hi-def is, frankly, idiotic.
And your obsession with slagging off Macs is weirder.
Where have I "slagged off Macs" in this thread, please?

You rampant fanboyism is making you see things!
And why are you rejecting my bitter experiences of trying to work on Windows machines?
Because it's totally irrelevant to my needs. I don't do TV editing. I do graphics, website design, photography and a whole load of other stuff, and I don't need lectures from you about what's supposedly 'best' for me.

The difference between me and you is that I wouldn't have the brass neck to try to tell you what you should be using, yet here you are, arrogantly insisting that if only I'd use a Mac for a month "I'd fuck all my PC gear off within a month."

You're welcome to froth on and on and on about how wonderful your Mac is for, errr, "rendering hi-def video on battery power with Photoshop and Firefox open" - and I'm sure it's absolutely spiffing - but when it comes to what's best for my needs, you're out of your depth.

Try learning to respect other professionals choices, eh?
 
Well Im not sure I entirely understand this high def argument. Given that modern Mac's hardware is extremely similar to PC's, a suitable PC is certainly not going to fail at this task due to a lack of grunt, or catch fire. A PC that is too low a spec would obviously struggle, but then so would an equivalent Mac.

The only sense I can make of this is if we are talking about software issues. I got quite annoyed with most of the Windows video editing software I tried between 3 and 10 years ago. But I expect there is software that is stable on Windows that will edit HD video quite nicely on the right machine. I chose to move to OS X because I liked the look of some of the apps, I was happy enough with the experience and so have invested my time and money in this area ever since. I kept buying Macs that were lower spec than I really needed, Ive finally got a Mac Pro so that I have enough power. But Ive put Windows Vista on it as well as OS X, and it hasnt melted yet ;)

Its not like Quicktime, Final Cut etc are without bugs or quirks that cause people to complain in support forums. Its not like my Macs have never ever frozen up.

And when it comes to pure performance, OS X is really not far ahead of WIndows - its better at some stuff and slower at other stuff.

Its a good point, Macs are now all Intel chips and my PC has an Intel chip in it. So in processing terms its all pretty much of a muchness.

The software is all fine as we tend to use proprietary systems as opposed to those that come with the machine.

Again, I'm not arguing either way (really don't care) just pointing out that my experience which is editing video for www.iet.tv we've never used Macs and we've never had any problems.

Not denying PKs experience just surprised at how emphatic he is.
 
I'm sure he'll be along soon to tell you what you should be using.

Yeah we are foolish. We use what works, but clearly we are not looking at the bigger picture. Having read this thread I'll have to issue my editors with a fire extinguisher (or would that be a fire blanket for an electrical fire?) as part of thier kit for the inevitable laptop inferno. Health and safety at all times.
 
I've come across plenty of graphics people, desingers and video bods in my time, and there's been no overwhelming trend as to what they used. Some Windows, some Macs.

I think a lot depends on what people start on. And I also think people mostly do their best work using the tools they feel the most comfortable with.

:)
 
OK, Vargas - when you have time - get your HP out, under battery power boot up Photoshop, open up a Windows browser, then open your video editing software (what is it, Avid, Pinnacle?) then set off a hi-def 1080i render off, let's say a chroma-key effect of ten minutes or so in length, in full resolution, then try and download from the web a decent sized logo and crop it about in Photoshop whilst the video is rendering in the background.

Not an unusual activity for a busy production suite at all. I do it daily.
In fact I'm posting now whilst rendering in the background.

You say you use what works - but you then say you've never edited hi-def.

I'm confused.

I'm working in hi-def, and have been for three years, for broadcast TV.

And I've edited standard broadcast TV for nearly 20 years, since the very first non-linear sutes were built by Avid... (for Macs running OS7, because no PC could do it back then).

So forgive me if I sound like a know-it-all, it's because there aren't many who know the limits of the available machines more than I do.

And of course the Windows lappies are not going to burst into flames, (well, they might!) I wasn't being entirely serious there but I suspect most people would have got that!

They will crash though. Lock up for no reason other than the complete inability to multifunction. Won't display web browsers properly.
That kind of bullshit.

I don't know why the Macs can do it without dying on their arses, but they can.
Maybe it's the magic goblins who live inside the Apple logo.
 
Have you used a decent multi-core windows PC recently PK?
I don't edit hi def movies, but I do do use specialised Architectural CAD software, and I have no issues whatsoever rendering a 300dpi A1 image in the background whilst eg. doing layout in InDesign, or working in another CAD program, or using the net. It's not rocket science, and there's nothing inherent about macs that makes them so much better at multitasking.
 
I don't know what you want, but you should take a look at some of the high spec HPs if you are looking for a PC.

How much are the high spec HP machines, compared to a Macbook?

HP Compaq Business Notebook 8710p = £1,134 inc VAT

Apple MacBook Pro 15" = £1,299.00 inc VAT

Call me a mug but I'd be spending the extra £160 odd quid on a machine I know works far, far better, faster, more reliable and less prone to virus and malware fuckups, for what I want.
 
OK, Vargas - when you have time - get your HP out, under battery power boot up Photoshop, open up a Windows browser, then open your video editing software (what is it, Avid, Pinnacle?) then set off a hi-def 1080i render off, let's say a chroma-key effect of ten minutes or so in length, in full resolution, then try and download from the web a decent sized logo and crop it about in Photoshop whilst the video is rendering in the background.

Not an unusual activity for a busy production suite at all. I do it daily.
In fact I'm posting now whilst rendering in the background.

You say you use what works - but you then say you've never edited hi-def.

I'm confused.

I'm working in hi-def, and have been for three years, for broadcast TV.

And I've edited standard broadcast TV for nearly 20 years, since the very first non-linear sutes were built by Avid... (for Macs running OS7, because no PC could do it back then).

So forgive me if I sound like a know-it-all, it's because there aren't many who know the limits of the available machines more than I do.

And of course the Windows lappies are not going to burst into flames, (well, they might!) I wasn't being entirely serious there but I suspect most people would have got that!

They will crash though. Lock up for no reason other than the complete inability to multifunction. Won't display web browsers properly.
That kind of bullshit.

I don't know why the Macs can do it without dying on their arses, but they can.
Maybe it's the magic goblins who live inside the Apple logo.

If you read what I wrote I said that I have never edited high def just broadcast quality, however, I no longer do much editing and the people who work for me who do, they edit high def. On an HP.

Yes we're using Avid and a Digital Rapids box outputting to a Real Helix server and a Flash server (though flash is a new format for us). We also have to add markers to synch Power Point slides, or other media, on the fly as well. We don't use full Photoshop, only Elements.

I'm not denying what you are saying PK. If you say it's true I believe you. What I am saying is that me and my team all use PCs and barring the battery bit we do pretty similar things, not exact, with no trouble.

Beyond that I don't know what to say to you. I'm not tryng to convince you of anything or to change anything. Your set up works for you - brilliant. Mine for me.

Only reason I chipped in at all was because of your assertion that PCs cant cope. I mean its all Intel chips right? We're using the same software. So the only real difference is the OS and I can't see that being responsible for such a massive difference in performance.

I'll agree on the battery life issue - Mac batteries do last longer in my experience - however access to a simple plug negates that benefit, and we almost always film and edit indoors.
 
Well... the thing is - there is!

I don't know why - must be the OS.

In those terms, quite frankly, that's a matter of opinion.

I've supported both professionally, and they're both very capable when correctly administered and utilised.

I personally like OS X better. But that's a value judgement, rather than a purely professional one.

I work in a Windows environment.
 
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