PC and Mac pricing trends...

[Lazy Llama]

IBM seem to make service manuals for most of their kit available to the public, from laptops to hefty servers. Lenovo continue to make the old Thinkpad manuals available, not sure whether they do for the same for the new ones.

By contrast, Apple service manuals are restricted to authorised service engineers/centres only, though they can be found floating around in torrents. Apple do however include user guides showing how to change the user-serviceable parts (memory, hard drive etc).

 

[XerxesVargas]

I've got one of each actually - a very nice 2 year old 17in HP Pavillion (its a zd 8398ea) and a 15in MacBook Pro. I love my HP and I've had no trouble with it. its got a fantastic keyboard. There are inherent issues with Windows software and I have reinstalled the OS once - but that was by choice and not necessary - to make it run quicker. My Mac is also excellent, but I have had it less time and I'm not as fond of it as the HP.

Having said all that, there is no question that the Mac is more expensive when you compare it with a like for like Windows machine, including software. However, what you do get with the Mac is a better machine in terms of gadget usability, once you get past the childish tendency to do interface commands differently from Microsoft just cause they can. The Mac is beautiful to look at and the little touches like the magnetic power cord and the keyboard back lighting are cool, but you can easily live without them.

You have to weigh that against the inherent smugness of the Mac enthusiast, its the geek equivalent of being a born again Christian. They are always banging on, "They never get viruses", etc; yeah but that is because you are/were insignificant in basic numbers and the virus writers couldn't be arsed. Too insignificant even for a Russian 14 year old who spends his days writing programmes that make Danni Minogues tits pop up 10 000 times on your desktop. That lad's got time. Not good.

Ultimately its a Marmite issue. You may as well be arguing over whether Shatner or Stewart is a better starship captain. Which you probably do when not arguing about Macs and PCs (says the man with the long post).

 

[UnderOpenSky]

They are always anging on, "They never get viruses", etc; yeah but that is because you are/were insignificant in basic numbers and the virus writers couldn't be arsed. Too insignificant even for a Russian 14 year old who spends his days writing programmes that make Danni Minogues tits pop up 10 000 times on your desktop. That lad's got time. Not good.

I though it was to do with being based on unix and more secure, although I've never owned one, so not that up on them.

 

[asbestos]

Perhaps you misread this bit: "the Thinkpad is the only laptop I've bought". I've used loads of Macs but never bought an Apple laptop so I can only speak from personal experience of the machines I've owned.

But if you're saying that Macs come with user instruction manuals showing consumers how to change individual components like fans, PCI cards, LCD screens, speakers, bezels and keyboards, then I'm equally impressed.

TBH, I could of used any old quote of yours on the many threads relating to Apple/Macs in this forum. You seem to lack any hard usage with the machines you appear a little to quick to knock, mostly bringing up the same lame old points that have been doing the rounds for god knows how long.

It's all about the OS, you seem to like yours, I much prefer mine... and I don't mind paying a few bob extra for it*




*And don't mention running OSX on pc hardware, I would rather struggle with a tape worm.

 

[editor]

TBH, I could of used any old quote of yours on the many threads relating to Apple/Macs in this forum

Errr... what? What's that got to with my post or this thread? Sounds like you're trying to stir up a tedious Mac vs PC bunfight. Yawn.

You seem to lack any hard usage with the machines you appear a little to quick to knock, mostly bringing up the same lame old points that have been doing the rounds for god knows how long.

What?! I haven't 'knocked' Macs anywhere in this thread - unless you're so sensitive that you think that commenting on the Thinkpad's documentation is somehow an assault on all things Apple.

Weird.

*And don't mention running OSX on pc hardware, I would rather struggle with a tape worm.

Even weirder.

 

[asbestos]

Errr... what? What's that got to with my post or this thread? Sounds like you're trying to stir up a tedious Mac vs PC bunfight. Yawn.

I'm not the one starting a Mac & PC pricing trends thread...

 

[XerxesVargas]

I though it was to do with being based on unix and more secure, although I've never owned one, so not that up on them.

Not sure tbh - but I know that they are appearing now, still only a few. But as more people use Macs it will happen eventually.

Little bastards.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

They're not appearing now though, not real ones.

 

[editor]

I'm not the one starting a Mac & PC pricing trends thread...

Oh dear. There's a world of difference between linking to an interesting article about PC and Mac pricing trends and starting a Mac vs PC bunfight.

I suggest you relax a little and stop being so ridiculously hyper sensitive about your precious OS. At no point in this thread have I passed any critical comment about Macs.

 

[XerxesVargas]

They're not appearing now though, not real ones.

Well yes and no. There are apparantly more than 60 current Mac viruses (according to Mac User ) but they do not pose much of a risk to Mac users at the moment. However, it shows that people are writing them.

From the article:

'Despite their cool designer looks, Apple Macs are failing to capture interest amongst the counter-culture which writes viruses,' said Graham Cluley, senior technology consultant for Sophos Anti-Virus. 'It's perfectly possible to write viruses for Apple Macs. Indeed, a Mac has no more inherent security than a PC, but virus writers appear to be motivated by a desire to cause widespread havoc and so have concentrated on the market leader.'

 

[FridgeMagnet]

That article is from 2003 and refers to pre OS X viruses, of which there were a few. Even nowadays, the only thing known that could be termed an OS X virus is Leap, which isn't really one IMO as it's spread via iChat. Also, nobody has it.

 

[editor]

I think it's fair to say that more viruses are likely to be written for Macs as the platform grows in popularity, but it's got a long, looooong way to go before it reaches the level of Windows viruses and if I was using a Mac I wouldn't be worried about being infected for a while yet.

Having said that, the risk for Windows users is often grossly overrated by virus vendors and it only takes a few simple steps to ensure that your machine is fully protected.

 

[Vintage Paw]

I don't mind paying more for a Mac. I have little time or inclination to get to know the inner workings of a PC and software to get it to the point at which I feel about my Mac. I'm prepared to pay more for something I feel comfortable with.

Sure, there are those who buy them thinking they make them look cool, but lots of people buy all sorts of things for that reason (the shiniest fold-up bike, the most expensive car, a sofa from a designer rather than from Argos, a ciabatta from a fancy coffee shop rather than a homemade cheese sarnie).

I'm happy with my Mac because it feels comfortable to work with. It's a bonus that it looks nice, to my eyes. I will continue to buy Macs, paying over the odds, while they continue to give me what I want.

 

[editor]

I'm happy with my Mac because it feels comfortable to work with. It's a bonus that it looks nice, to my eyes. I will continue to buy Macs, paying over the odds, while they continue to give me what I want.

And there's nowt wrong with that.

 

[Vintage Paw]

And there's nowt wrong with that.

Yep

I think there becomes a problem when some people tar all users of a particular machine with the same brush. They've seen a certain type of behaviour on the internets before, and believe that all people therefore must conform to the image they set up in their minds. I get a bit pissed off at all this 'damn Mac fanboi stuff' – especially when it's screeched by my utterly windows fanboi friends

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Having said that, the risk for Windows users is often grossly overrated by virus vendors and it only takes a few simple steps to ensure that your machine is fully protected.

They're a menace to be frank, more so than the actual viruses.

 

[XerxesVargas]

That article is from 2003 and refers to pre OS X viruses, of which there were a few. Even nowadays, the only thing known that could be termed an OS X virus is Leap, which isn't really one IMO as it's spread via iChat. Also, nobody has it.

But it is a virus... Not one to worry about but a virus none the less. Which was my point wasn't it?

<sigh> Its was the first article I came across i should have paid more attention to the date. Try this for size:

OpenOffice worm hits Mac, Linux and Windows

However, my point is valid. I have said all along that there aren't (m)any viruses for Mac - but that is because of their market share not anything inherent to Macs. Given time and an increase in market share they will become more common.

I have no major point, just pointing out that you probably shouldn't buy a Mac thinking you are invulnerable to viruses.

 

[XerxesVargas]

They're a menace to be frank, more so than the actual viruses.

Its the spyware & malware that pisses me off and IMO is the biggest worry. Anti-viruses will only protect you against known viruses, all virus writers have subscriptions to the main providers to test their work. So if you do get one, your are more than likely shagged.

The malware is annoying as it can make the whole experience of using your computer tiresome, from pop-ups to stealing bandwith. But as Ed says, with the proper progrmmes they are managable.

I run my PC with Mcafee, AVG anti-spy, and Spybot S&D. That seems to take care of it very well.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Are there any Mac spyware/malware around? In fact has any PC uses who use Firefox/Opera caught any?

 

[UnderOpenSky]

I get a bit pissed off at all this 'damn Mac fanboi stuff' – especially when it's screeched by my utterly windows fanboi friends

I don't get windows fanboys, I mean macs seem to have an OS that their users are proud of and I don't have enough experience to comment, but in 15 years of using windows I can never say that I've been a fan. I was impressed with the leap from 98 to 2k, but that's about it. I thought they were a mythical breed made up by mac users, but I now I work with one, bought vista for an existing machine, pimped IE so it does everything FF does, begs the question why you don't just FF to start with.

 

[Vintage Paw]

I don't get windows fanboys, I mean macs seem to have an OS that their users are proud of and I don't have enough experience to comment, but in 15 years of using windows I can never say that I've been a fan. I was impressed with the leap from 98 to 2k, but that's about it. I thought they were a mythical breed made up by mac users, but I now I work with one, bought vista for an existing machine, pimped IE so it does everything FF does, begs the question why you don't just FF to start with.

Ime, it's less of a windows fanboi-ism and more of an anti-mac fanboi-ism. In a "my custom-built pc is so shit hot, it's so much better than any Mac could ever be". It's never "my custom-built pc is so much better than your Dell". Well, ime, anyway.

 

[untethered]

The stats don't make much sense. The Mac is a mid- and upmarket brand. Of course they're going to be more expensive than the cheapest PCs, in the same way that mid- and upmarket PCs are going to be more expensive than the cheapest PCs.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Ime, it's less of a windows fanboi-ism and more of an anti-mac fanboi-ism. In a "my custom-built pc is so shit hot, it's so much better than any Mac could ever be". It's never "my custom-built pc is so much better than your Dell". Well, ime, anyway.

You've obviously never been on ebuyer forums. Dell is even more of a dirty word then Mac. Its a fun place to troll.*

*fun being marginally more interesting then inserting pins behind your fingernails.

 

[Vintage Paw]

You've obviously never been on ebuyer forums. Dell is even more of a dirty word then Mac. Its a fun place to troll.*

*fun being marginally more interesting then inserting pins behind your fingernails.

I just can't see the point in it all myself. I find it quite sad that some people feel the need to big themselves up in such a pathetic way. It smacks of insecurity.

Or perhaps I'm reading too much into it?

 

[UnderOpenSky]

I thought if you spent that much time and money overclocking your pc and putting neon lights in it, then that went without saying. There is a thread where people just post their benchmarks and I swear buy new kit, just to beat others. It makes me wonder how they have any time to play the games these machines are built for.

 

[Iam]

One of the product support guys where I work thinks Mac users are sort of backwards cavemen. Mind you, he once wrote his own version of AD (functionality wise, at least) because he "disagreed with how Microsoft had done most things" (or words thereabouts). He also thinks people who know any Linux/Unix are a bit weird, too.

Mind you, I had to set up his dual screens for him not so long back, so...

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I thought if you spent that much time and money overclocking your pc and putting neon lights in it, then that went without saying. There is a thread where people just post their benchmarks and I swear buy new kit, just to beat others. It makes me wonder how they have any time to play the games these machines are built for.

I don't think they do ever play them. They buy (or torrent) the games so that they can measure the FPS that they get.

Mac-vs-PC is bad enough but is absolutely nothing to what you get in hardware forums. Who, honestly, flames somebody about their model of graphics card? Not even the brand, the model.

 

[asbestos]

I suggest you relax a little and stop being so ridiculously hyper sensitive

?

 

[editor]

?

Anyone who gets worked up into a stroppy fit about a comment on the availability of ThinkPad documentation sure seems a little highly strung to me.

Or a bit bonkers.

 

[asbestos]

Anyone who gets worked up into a stroppy fit about a comment on the availability of ThinkPad documentation sure seems a little highly strung to me.

Or a bit bonkers.

you crack me up...