Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

parents drinking while dropping off/collecting children from school

Yes. Heaven forfend that children get the idea that adults can drink alcohol in moderation in broad daylight without any significant impairment of the faculties. After all, the alternate model to which many are exposed--that it must be drunk in large quantities after dark behind closed doors away from the disapproving tuts of the curtain twitchers--is so much more positive.

I wonder what the policeman´s views are on the parents driving them to school in an SUV or having a gay partner are, and why he stopped at that particular prejudice? There are so many he could impose if he has a mind to, some of which even have some modest social benefit.
 
Another link from the local rag

http://www.barnsley-chronicle.co.uk/news/2,0000,2926.html

If there was parents drinking to and from school where my son goes, I would probably think there where a bit odd to to be honest.

Fair enough if they choose to get a bit drunk and can still function as a parent, though I reckon they have a lot of issues if they have to get pissed walking the kids to school if they cant even wait until 9am to have a drink!

Sounds more like a social problem though, there is no information about wether the drinking parents work or not.
 
Yes. Heaven forfend that children get the idea that adults can drink alcohol in moderation in broad daylight without any significant impairment of the faculties. After all, the alternate model to which many are exposed--that it must be drunk in large quantities after dark behind closed doors away from the disapproving tuts of the curtain twitchers--is so much more positive.

I wonder what the policeman´s views are on the parents driving them to school in an SUV or having a gay partner are, and why he stopped at that particular prejudice? There are so many he could impose if he has a mind to, some of which even have some modest social benefit.

From my perspective this is nothing to do with morals.

The area where the school is (according to 2007 stats) has three times the national level of unemployment and people on incapacity benefit, with a third of working age adults not working and receiving benefits.

Seems to me this is just a symptom of a massive social problem caused by unemployment and is nothing to do with the morals or not of drinking.

The school seems to have some projects around educating children about alcohol, not in the moral context, but in the context of harm reduction and as an attempt to break the cycle of unemployment and substance misuse.

Though they have a tough job, as they can not create jobs and they where not responsible for the decimation of local industries in the 1980's.
 
What kind of parent can't even wait until the kids are safely in the car before cracking open another can? :mad:
 
Nanny State Gone Mad!!!!!

As long as ther're not driving(over the limit) I can't see the problem. At least they are conscientious enough to take their kids to school.:cool::eek:
 
What's the betting that it was just one poor soul who'd been down on their luck one day and hit the bottle on a school run. Then now it has blown up into a full on bullshit rant that has employed the chinese whispers syndrome to satisfy today's puritanical media's current agenda.
Also known as fore-runner to alcohol restriction/ban. :facepalm:
 
ETA: OK, having read detective_boy's post, I realise I've got slightly the wrong end of the stick as this is about controlled drinking orders. Still, although this post mentions ASBOs, I think the point stands - in fact it's even worse, if we're developing more and more effectively unaccountable approaches to controlling people's behaviour. CDOs, like ASBOs, do seem to be a cheap'n'easy way of imposing restrictions on behaviour that probably wouldn't be able to be done - perhaps quite rightly - through the usual legislative channels. So for "ASBO" below, read "ASBO/CDO/other similar quasi-legal restrictions". I realise this will probably make d_b cross. Sorry *shrug*


So the universal panacea, the ASBO, gets trotted out again.

This really bothers me.

I do think it's a bit iffy for people to be standing around outside a school drinking out of cans, but...well, it might not be what we like, but unless these people are actually behaving in an anti-social way, shouldn't we be letting them get on with it?

There's always going to be an issue with the kind of thinking that says "if people do something I don't like, then it should be banned". Part of living in a free society is having the right to do things that other people may not approve of, but which they must be prevented from stopping us from doing.

When ASBOs came out, lots of people worried that they would end up being used in an overbroad way, and I think that is exactly what has happened. We're seeing ASBOs being used as a way of circumventing due process - effectively doing an end run around all the protections and safeguards that our justice system possesses (and they're arguably not enough sometimes).

And they're also being used to address "problems" they simply shouldn't be applicable to: I can remember a case a year or two back where a mentally-ill woman was given an ASBO to prevent her from making suicide attempts. Sure, one could argue that trying to commit suicide is an "antisocial act", but is that really the best way to view it?

Similarly, is hitting people to whom it hasn't occurred that drinking a few bevies outside school isn't quite the Done Thing with a big ASBO Hammer the best way to address such behaviours? I don't believe it is - you're far more likely to create even more of the kind of alienation and resentment that undermines law and order, and prompts even more antisocial behaviour in the long run. Surely, they'd be better off having the head of the school write to parents to ask them not to drink outside his/her school, and then following up any unpleasantness that might result from that through the usual criminal channels (threatening behaviour, etc...). I know that means that someone has to do the hard job of standing at the school gate and saying "Excuse me, but would you mind not bringing alcohol to this gate in future?". But if the alternative's yet another small nail hammered into the coffin lid of people's relationship with society, I think we have to do it that way.

Because I'm getting really tired of all this stupidly transparent "quick fix" legislation we seem to be going in for - our legal system seems to be turning into a kind of massive collage of sticking plasters, with laws being passed to mandate health (eg smoking bans), ID card legislation being hailed as the cure of all ills as far as identity and security are concerned, ASBOs being hailed as the line of first resort whenever some slightly trick or challenging behaviour, which isn't quite serious enough to warrant a criminal prosecution, rears its head.

If this silly idea of ASBOing people who are inconsiderate and misguided enough to be drinking booze while they wait for their kids gets implemented, count on it that it'll then creep a bit further, and someone will end up being walloped for, oh, I dunno, standing on their front doorstep having a brew while they chat with their neighbour, or something.
 
ETA: OK, having read detective_boy's post, I realise I've got slightly the wrong end of the stick as this is about controlled drinking orders. Still, although this post mentions ASBOs, I think the point stands - in fact it's even worse, if we're developing more and more effectively unaccountable approaches to controlling people's behaviour. CDOs, like ASBOs, do seem to be a cheap'n'easy way of imposing restrictions on behaviour that probably wouldn't be able to be done - perhaps quite rightly - through the usual legislative channels. So for "ASBO" below, read "ASBO/CDO/other similar quasi-legal restrictions". I realise this will probably make d_b cross. Sorry *shrug*


So the universal panacea, the ASBO, gets trotted out again.

This really bothers me.

I do think it's a bit iffy for people to be standing around outside a school drinking out of cans, but...well, it might not be what we like, but unless these people are actually behaving in an anti-social way, shouldn't we be letting them get on with it?

There's always going to be an issue with the kind of thinking that says "if people do something I don't like, then it should be banned". Part of living in a free society is having the right to do things that other people may not approve of, but which they must be prevented from stopping us from doing.

When ASBOs came out, lots of people worried that they would end up being used in an overbroad way, and I think that is exactly what has happened. We're seeing ASBOs being used as a way of circumventing due process - effectively doing an end run around all the protections and safeguards that our justice system possesses (and they're arguably not enough sometimes).

And they're also being used to address "problems" they simply shouldn't be applicable to: I can remember a case a year or two back where a mentally-ill woman was given an ASBO to prevent her from making suicide attempts. Sure, one could argue that trying to commit suicide is an "antisocial act", but is that really the best way to view it?

Similarly, is hitting people to whom it hasn't occurred that drinking a few bevies outside school isn't quite the Done Thing with a big ASBO Hammer the best way to address such behaviours? I don't believe it is - you're far more likely to create even more of the kind of alienation and resentment that undermines law and order, and prompts even more antisocial behaviour in the long run. Surely, they'd be better off having the head of the school write to parents to ask them not to drink outside his/her school, and then following up any unpleasantness that might result from that through the usual criminal channels (threatening behaviour, etc...). I know that means that someone has to do the hard job of standing at the school gate and saying "Excuse me, but would you mind not bringing alcohol to this gate in future?". But if the alternative's yet another small nail hammered into the coffin lid of people's relationship with society, I think we have to do it that way.

Because I'm getting really tired of all this stupidly transparent "quick fix" legislation we seem to be going in for - our legal system seems to be turning into a kind of massive collage of sticking plasters, with laws being passed to mandate health (eg smoking bans), ID card legislation being hailed as the cure of all ills as far as identity and security are concerned, ASBOs being hailed as the line of first resort whenever some slightly trick or challenging behaviour, which isn't quite serious enough to warrant a criminal prosecution, rears its head.

If this silly idea of ASBOing people who are inconsiderate and misguided enough to be drinking booze while they wait for their kids gets implemented, count on it that it'll then creep a bit further, and someone will end up being walloped for, oh, I dunno, standing on their front doorstep having a brew while they chat with their neighbour, or something.

Outstanding post. I agree 100%
 
There is a broader context to this story.

The Doncaster Road school is in a fairly deprived area of Barnsley and sits at the bottom of Brinkman street which is notorious and where much drug dealing and use occurs. Opposite the school is a drop in project run by the church for the homeless which provide food several times a week. This project has been the focus of a community campaign to have it closed as their is a perception that it is increasing Anti social behaviour and attracting more drug users & drinkers into the area. Numbers of discarded needles on surrounding streets has increased, they have been found in the school playground and surrounding alleyways are being used for injecting and dealing. The community meetings have been held in the school and the BNP are very active in this campaign. A planned protest outside the drop in was cancelled after the organisers received phones calls telling them that "we know where you live".

It seems to me that the banning of drinking is part of the pressure that is being put on the churches project to be closed down - many of the parents who are being seen drinking are also using the drop in at the church.
 
It strikes me as being a child protection issue. If someone has to have a drink that early in the morning, then they quite probably have an alcohol dependence. I'd expect some social services involvement.
 
There is a broader context to this story.

The Doncaster Road school is in a fairly deprived area of Barnsley and sits at the bottom of Brinkman street which is notorious and where much drug dealing and use occurs. Opposite the school is a drop in project run by the church for the homeless which provide food several times a week. This project has been the focus of a community campaign to have it closed as their is a perception that it is increasing Anti social behaviour and attracting more drug users & drinkers into the area. Numbers of discarded needles on surrounding streets has increased, they have been found in the school playground and surrounding alleyways are being used for injecting and dealing. The community meetings have been held in the school and the BNP are very active in this campaign. A planned protest outside the drop in was cancelled after the organisers received phones calls telling them that "we know where you live".

It seems to me that the banning of drinking is part of the pressure that is being put on the churches project to be closed down - many of the parents who are being seen drinking are also using the drop in at the church.

OK, so it sounds like it's just a little bit political (or at least about self-interest), too?

Another example of the way "legislation lite" can be so much more easily hijacked to the benefit of people's specific agendas...

It strikes me as being a child protection issue. If someone has to have a drink that early in the morning, then they quite probably have an alcohol dependence. I'd expect some social services involvement.

And, of course, the focus being put so firmly on the whole "drinking outside schools" agenda neatly avoids us having to think about this, which is perhaps the biggest problem surrounding this behaviour. It's a lovely on-the-ground illustration of the old punish vs rehabilitate dichotomy. And let's face it - this one, like so many, is going to end up being all about punishment...
 
street drinking has now become synomous with anti-social behaviour. I'm right in thinking even in a controll zone it's not an offense to drink per se, just an offense if you refuse to surrender it if asked by an officer? Dectective boy do you know?
 
street drinking has now become synomous with anti-social behaviour. I'm right in thinking even in a controll zone it's not an offense to drink per se, just an offense if you refuse to surrender it if asked by an officer? Dectective boy do you know?

yep, its down to the discretion of the officer and whether they think you might commit anti-social behaviour
 
I don't think it's as simple as that. I've become more used to only using drink as an occasional thing, you know, to enjoy a can of beer. It might be out of step with british society but I don't want to go out and drink 10 pints and start a fight, if the only chance for a bit of solitude and contemplation I ever get is to drink a can of beer on the way walking home from the nursery, why the buggery shouldn't I...:eek:
 
Look, however you wrap it up Walrus, the walk home from school should never be seen as your last chance for 'solitude and contemplation '. You're walking your kid home for a start, not airily floating into some Tibetan meditative retreat.

I'm not opposed to folks having tinnies when they like, but even I'll admit that there seem better times, and better examples to the youth, than cracking open a tin at the school gates to 'sustain' you on the way home
 
Look, however you wrap it up Walrus, the walk home from school should never be seen as your last chance for 'solitude and contemplation '. You're walking your kid home for a start, not airily floating into some Tibetan meditative retreat.

I'm not opposed to folks having tinnies when they like, but even I'll admit that there seem better times, and better examples to the youth, than cracking open a tin at the school gates to 'sustain' you on the way home

The thing is that we're entitled to hold those opinions, but then I think we have to accept that others are entitled to hold the opinion that having a beer as they walk home from the nursery with their kid is also OK.

I do agree with you tarannau - it's not something I feel comfortable about either - but I think we have to be really very careful about going down the road that says we should legislate against things we feel uncomfortable about. If only because legislating for it covers only the "symptoms", not the underlying lifestyle issues that make drinking in the street excusable or the only option.

I've never (as far as I can recall) drunk in the street, and I generally find myself having very negative preconceptions about people I see who do. But I do believe, as a matter of principle, that if people want to do it, and it isn't - on an individual basis - causing any harm, then we shouldn't be falling over ourselves to ban it.
 
yep, its down to the discretion of the officer and whether they think you might commit anti-social behaviour

That's what I thought, though it’s now seen as socially unacceptable to drink at all in these areas. Even if you behave socially the very act of drinking which has now been demonized makes people think you are being anti-social.

This officer is blurring the lines between morality and criminality, which is really not surprising given the raft of poor legislation created in recent years.
 
yep, its down to the discretion of the officer and whether they think you might commit anti-social behaviour
That's about it. The police and councils often say that they will only intervene if there is / is expected to be some sort of disorder ... and that is definitely the Home Office advice ... but unfortunately the legislation itself has no such requirement and a police officer (or PCSO in areas where they have been accredited with the power) can require the alcohol be surrendered without any legal requirement to prove disorder / anticipated disorder at all.

More poorly drafted legislation which just begs to be misused ... :(
 
Back
Top Bottom