Palins winks vs Obama rubbing dirt off his shoulder: which was shitter?
- Thread starter Jon-of-arc
- Start date
No.
Treacle Toes
Time
Okay so I have read the article and watched the video of Obama.
The article ends
You seem to think it was. I'm not so sure it was. Just because Obama says he likes rap and Jay-Z? Have you ever heard the line 'Pick yourself up, dust yourself off'...? It's quite a common concept. I'm sure it's been sung about, talked about and given as advice many a time.
Do you believe everything you read in the papers, do you recognise their bias? What is the WP's motive do you think?
Treacle Toes
Time
Does it mean he did it on purpose then?
I had never heard that song or read the lyrics.
Does that mean that now I have, everytime I dust my shoulders to illustrate not caring or not be beaten by something I am copying Jay-Z?
Before when I did it it meant something else and I don't think anyone ever refered to me as a pimp.
Treacle Toes
Time
More from the article...
Who are the people talking exactly? Those at the Washington post?
Who made these mash-up videos? Obama Michelle and the girls? Obama's campaigners?
Everyone knows it was a Jay Z reference, loads of papers reported it as such, Guardian, bloggers, The Washington Post certainly made the association (its a pretty respectable newspaper, you know). Seriously, just drop it. it's not that important. You're not gonna catch me out as a racist, so stop trying.
Treacle Toes
Time
Repectable in which sense?
You see I never was trying to catch you out on anything. I questioned your analogies as I thought them crass. I didn't like the references you made, simple. I don't like the references those newspapers are making either. IMO they are doing what they often do, they are adding 2 and 2 and making 5.
Newspapers have bias and by repeating what they say that bias can come across as your own.
Now, what about your flippant comments about Palin? Sexism? Oh, it was only a joke? Well, that makes it alright then.
Also, why was it important to know if I am a Black woman or not? Seeing as though I had the good grace to answer your question, please answer mine.
Repectable in which sense?
You see I never was trying to catch you out on anything. I questioned your analogies as I thought them crass. I didn't like the references you made, simple. I don't like the references those newspapers are making either. IMO they are doing what they often do, they are adding 2 and 2 and making 5.
Newspapers have bias and by repeating what they say that bias can come across as your own.
Now, what about your flippant comments about Palin? Sexism? Oh, it was only a joke? Well, that makes it alright then.
Also, why was it important to know if I am a Black woman or not? Seeing as though I had the good grace to answer your question, please answer mine.
Respectable in the sense that it is a "newspaper of record" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspaper_of_record
The inference that Obama made a jay z ref was so widely reported that, if it mattered (which it doesn't, tbh) Obama would have stated the he was not making a reference to Jay Z. But he was. Why don't you like that? What does it matter? Why is it so impossible to believe that obama would do such a thing? Articulate your issue with it, because from what I can see it was a pretty harmless attempt to appeal to "young america" and appear in touch with youth culture....
Yes, my palin "sexism" was indeed a joke, and yes that does make it ok. As Jimmy Carr put it, "that was post-modern mysogyny, steeped in irony. So don't you worry your pretty little head about it...."
I wondered if you were a black woman because I wondered if you were personally offended by the prejudice that you perceived, or if you were objecting to my comments on a more general basis. I was also just vaguely curious.
Now I've answered your questions and I am going to take Kysers very good advice to not take any more bate. Have a nice evening.
Treacle Toes
Time
So you have no personal perspective on the WP's motive for running that article?
Perhaps he just rolled with the metaphorical punches a la Ali, sweated into his afro, grimaced and declared 'I'm the greatest!'
I have no problem with him doing so if that's what he did. Wouldn't make me refer to him as a 'pimp brother' though.
Do you think young america see him as a 'pimp brother' because he has an awareness of popular music and may have made an allusion to it?
Oh of course, good old fashioned irony. Giving folks everywhere the chance to say what they like, when they like, as hey it's 'your' problem if you can't take a joke! You too, I'm just off now to play some guitar.
Now if you can work out which popular guitarist I am aware of and imitating right now may be able to come up with an analogy to describe me!
"That is, to watch her, as we watch these kites
That bate and beat and will not be obedient."
PETRUCHIO
Woof
Treacle Toes
Time
"That is, to watch her, as we watch these kites
That bate and beat and will not be obedient."
PETRUCHIO
Woof
I should know my place jessie. You are right!
I should know my place jessie. You are right!
No. No. No. No. No.
It was a joke about jon's typo, it just came into my head and I thought it appropriate (and, pardon me, a little witty), given the development of the thread.
Take care, Ru, and enjoy your strum.
Woof
Treacle Toes
Time
No. No. No. No. No.
It was a joke about jon's typo, it just came into my head and I thought it appropriate (and, pardon me, a little witty), given the development of the thread.
Take care, Ru, and enjoy your strum.
Woof
I wasn't entirely serious myself Jess.Thanks for your good wishes.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
Treacle Toes
Time
I didn't like your use of the word everyone here so I went and checked it out for myself.
This one.... http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/04/obamas_jayz_moment.html
But wait, read the comments, so not everyone then.
nutters!
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Why have you started a thread about it then?
teqniq
DisMembered
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
I have just watched the original Jay-Z video on YouTube
To me I don't think there is any doubt whatsoever that Obama was deliberatly referencing this song.
Here's a wiki page about the song: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirt_Off_Your_Shoulder
It was #5 in the US charts, it was also the b-side to 99 problems - so in no way obscure in the US. Don't know if it ever charted in the UK however, or got much airplay here.
Given the lyrics of the song and the lighthearted nature of the original post I can't see anything wrong in this:
It is sad to see a valid question about US politics being "dumbed down" turned into a right-on witch-hunt about non-existent racism/sexism/hidden-agendas re. the choice of 4 (perfectly reasonable IMO) words in the OP.
Way to go in derailing a thread and dumbing down the debate!
To me I don't think there is any doubt whatsoever that Obama was deliberatly referencing this song.
Here's a wiki page about the song: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirt_Off_Your_Shoulder
It was #5 in the US charts, it was also the b-side to 99 problems - so in no way obscure in the US. Don't know if it ever charted in the UK however, or got much airplay here.
Given the lyrics of the song and the lighthearted nature of the original post I can't see anything wrong in this:
It is sad to see a valid question about US politics being "dumbed down" turned into a right-on witch-hunt about non-existent racism/sexism/hidden-agendas re. the choice of 4 (perfectly reasonable IMO) words in the OP.
Way to go in derailing a thread and dumbing down the debate!
Treacle Toes
Time
Derailing? The thread got to post 18 and the only thing discussed was whether Palin is attractive or which party has the most attractive women in it!It is sad to see a valid question about US politics being "dumbed down" turned into a right-on witch-hunt about non-existent racism/sexism/hidden-agendas re. the choice of 4 (perfectly reasonable IMO) words in the OP.
Way to go in derailing a thread and dumbing down the debate!
So before Jay-z did this it was a perfectly valid thing to do, has been for generations.....now Jay-Z has 'penned' the words it represents 'dumb' and means it's prefectly okay to call Obama 'pimp brother'. If Mccain had done it would he have been imitating Gene Kelly? Also, according to your last post, courting the youth vote and showing an awareness of youth culture is 'dumb'?
Did you watch the video of the speech? Those people who stood up and cheered Obama, do you think they all have Jay-Z on their ipods and all saw his gesture as a deliberate 'acting' out of that song? Sure they did!....and lets not forget the 'winky wonder'...on the side of evil, but nudge-nudge, wink-wink, oh soooooooooooooooo doable!
Personally I think it dumbs down the debate to focus on these gestures and not the policies of the candidates. Why? because guess what, it reduces them to the OP's associations a 'MILF' and a 'pimp brother'. Nothing wrong with that huh? After all she is an attractive older woman and he is a Black man with an awareness of rap music. Why not a successful working mother or a successful musician/buisnessman? Nope, doesn't get your juices going in the same way does it. Doesn't allow you to feel important and funny.
People speak of the dumbing down of this campaign and to me they see it as perfectly acceptable not to see past the gender of Palin and the race of Obama, to me that's 'dumb'.
Who will win the US election?
Well let me see, Palin is a good looking woman, so maybe i'll vote for Mccain, on the otherhand Obama is into rap.
Oh it's just to difficlut to decide!
You can argue that lots of people are accessing these people in that way, that 'everyone' is making those associations. Some of them may be, but that IMO doesn't make it right.
Well, I suppose I just expected a bit more from the folks here. Not the crass analogies made and the loud guffaws that put me in mind of the self-important and misguided intellectual snobbery exhibited in 'gentlemen's clubs' during the last century.
If that makes me 'right-on' and on a 'witch hunt' I don't care, call it what you want. After all, I got off lightly, you could have describe me as 'hysterical' or 'uppity'.
Afterall, you know better than me, right?
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Grand Ole Party People E'd Rike to Suck.
Rutita, you make a fair comment about 'derailing' and I agree it is disappointing. I also understand why you dislike crass stereotyping and dragging in terms like 'pimps' and 'MILFs'.
However at this point in time I'd ague that "showing an awareness of youth culture" (or showing an awareness of hunting and shooting culture) - or trying to be all 'sexy' - isn't really what I would look for in a candidate and if I felt that it as being done cynically to create an 'image' rather than win votes via policies and principles then in fact I would actively dislike it.
To his credit Obama has not done this IMO - or rather he has created an image of being intelligent and switched-on. My comment about imitating Jay-Z (or Gene Kelly?) wasn't meant to extend to his whole campiagn, simply my reaction to that one clip.
Palin on the other hand (maybe because we have seen less of her) seems to have played up to a certain 'image' rather than say anything credible. This is maybe also due to her being candidate for Vice President and therefore not having a central role in setting out all the policies, rather than playing a 'back up' role.
If someone suspects the candidates themselves are cynically trying to project an image of "MILF" or "pimp brother" as they put it (or however you want to paraphrase it in less crass/sexist/racist terms) that isn't the same as saying that's what they *are*. I am definitely not saying any such thing about either person. I am saying I dislike it when politics tends in that direction - I am in agreement with you on this it seems.
As for what 'gets my juices flowing' or 'allows me to feel important and funny' or 'not seeing past gender or race' - sorry but I still don't see where you are getting all that from in anything I have posted.
However at this point in time I'd ague that "showing an awareness of youth culture" (or showing an awareness of hunting and shooting culture) - or trying to be all 'sexy' - isn't really what I would look for in a candidate and if I felt that it as being done cynically to create an 'image' rather than win votes via policies and principles then in fact I would actively dislike it.
To his credit Obama has not done this IMO - or rather he has created an image of being intelligent and switched-on. My comment about imitating Jay-Z (or Gene Kelly?) wasn't meant to extend to his whole campiagn, simply my reaction to that one clip.
Palin on the other hand (maybe because we have seen less of her) seems to have played up to a certain 'image' rather than say anything credible. This is maybe also due to her being candidate for Vice President and therefore not having a central role in setting out all the policies, rather than playing a 'back up' role.
You can't ignore what the candidates do in their public speeches and appearances. If you are trying to focus on the policies - ie the actual consequences of elected one or the other - it is perfectly fair to comment if you think people are trying to turn the campaign into on based on image, prejudice and 'identity politics' (a vote for gender/skin colour/age/etc). This most clearly applies to Palin IMO, but you have to acknowledge things done on both sides if you are being honest about it.
If someone suspects the candidates themselves are cynically trying to project an image of "MILF" or "pimp brother" as they put it (or however you want to paraphrase it in less crass/sexist/racist terms) that isn't the same as saying that's what they *are*. I am definitely not saying any such thing about either person. I am saying I dislike it when politics tends in that direction - I am in agreement with you on this it seems.
As for what 'gets my juices flowing' or 'allows me to feel important and funny' or 'not seeing past gender or race' - sorry but I still don't see where you are getting all that from in anything I have posted.
Rainingstairs
Well-Known Member
she winked at the nation...what a twat!
I don't think that I ever treated the issue with the seriousness that certain others have. I was more bored and decided that the best way to liven up urban when there are no threads that you are interested in is to start your own one that you are vaguely interested in.
As you can see, when Fruity-tooty-rutita (i wonder what she'll make of that name....) thought she had me in her cross hairs as a racist, I took that issue a bit more seriously. I was forced to explain exactly why I had used the terms and phrases that I did, which meant that everything got a bit side tracked...
But seriously, whether obama meant it as a Jay Z issue is just so irrelevant. Quite frankly, I think its just (just...) possible that he didnt, but the media went wild reporting it as such and he did nothing to counteract such rumours (because they did his campaign a fair bit of good...) so I think that we can safely say that the issue can be dropped and we can get back to general debassing of republican women. Sexism is fine when its against republicans, as they propogate raging inequalities where-ever they go....
Treacle Toes
Time
Okay.
Have you ever thought that they might not be trying that hard. Palin is a good looking woman and has a habit of winking, Obama is a Black man with an awareness of rap, so what? If it wasn't them it'd be someone else and we'd pick up on something else to beat them with.
I'd prefer though, as I'm sure you would that we focussed on what they stand for and have to offer in terms of party policies.
I hear what you are saying about a 'created' image. The media machine at work, I'm not convinced that Palin and Obama are that much in control of their media image. The media picks up on stuff and runs with it.
I hear ya. But up until the time Jay-z wrote that song we would have interpreted Obama in that clip in a very different way.
How old is rap music by the way? It isn't anything new, Obama would've grown up with it surely? He hasn't just decided to listen to it because it will help him win votes.
She's playing her best shots, they all are, you would too. She's being herself, who else is she is going to be.
Of course it is, I acknowledge that. Equally it's a sad representation of affairs that I can't read anything about Palin or Obama without references being made to her gender or his race. Calling her a 'MILF' and him a 'pimp brother' isn't big or clever.
Here we go again: I'm currently listening to R4, tune in, it's all about Obama and his race and whether or not America is ready for a Black president. I know, it's a valid question but....I'm having a hard time understanding what his party stands for amongst all this considering the hue of his skin.
Okay.
My comment wasn't aimed at you as such.
But you did wade in and accuse me of a witch hunt. I was not hunting anyone, I expressed my disappointment about the language used in the OP as I thought it crass. I suggested it illustrated unfortunate associations towards specific demographics.
I was then accused of accusing the OP of racism and sexism, also what race I am, and then before I got a chance to answer another poster came onto the thread and described me as 'right on' why do you think they did that? There was an inference right there in that statement. It told the reader something.
No one picked up on my comment about being 'black' depending on the politics of the person asking the question. I am in fact mixed race.
Language is powerful and I am entitled to like or dislike other people's use of it so as they are entitled to question mine.
That said I still haven't accused the op of anything more of using crass analogies, which IMO completely undermined the point they believe they were jovially making.
BTW Float....thanks for responding so politely, i'm old fashioned and appreciate it.
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