Palestinians invade Israel
- Thread starter moono
- Start date
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
moono said:
LOL!
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Peet said:
I think your analogy sucks whale dick.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
warren said:
I think that you're worried as fuck that such a thing might happen, that's what I think.
I further think that the state of Israel (that's the "powers that be", not Joe Schmuck on the street) is probably (as would any state worth its' salt) investing heavily in perpetuating the violence.
Genghis Cohen
Minister For Scrabble
Peet said:
Just deluded and fanatical enough for its leader to become prime minister of a fanatical terrorist pseudo-state though, eh.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Genghis Cohen said:
Innit, the Irgun generation spawned Likud, who have dominated Israeli politics for the better part of 10 years.
I forgot Lehi who, as many of us already know, tried to form links with Nazi Germany.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
warren said:
It's in Israel's interests to have Hamas and Fatah at each other's throats. The US is smugly pleased too.
nino_savatte said:
I'm chuffed to bollocks, may they wipe each other out with hopefully no innocent casualities.
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
PartTimePongo said:
The problem is there will be innocent casualties. You don't have a situation like that in an urban environment with ordnance flying round everywhere without civvy casualties. From what I saw on the news some of the buildings in Gaza looked like it had been hit by quite large calibre small arms / heavy machine gun fire. Unfortunately it won't just been the nutters with guns getting killed I'm afraid.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
PartTimePongo said:
I'm sure you are, trollboy.
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
Peet said:
Disagree. This will make the situation worse and feed the extremists. Give money but keep a close financial eye on what is happening to it. Too much money that should have helped people living in the PA ended up in corrupt officials pockets. The corruption was part of why people voted for Hamas.
nino_savatte said:
I don't like terrorists so I'm a troll ?
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
PartTimePongo said:I don't like terrorists so I'm a troll ?
On the contrary, you support terrorists; they just happen to be state-sponsored terrorists.
You said this
That's trolling.
rhys gethin
New Member
PartTimePongo said:
Hi, Pongo. You are a contemptible shit, in case you didn't know. Were you old enough to be a guard in Belsen? Go away and die, you nazi turd!
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
PartTimePongo said:
A nice sentence.
It shows you up as a deluded sadist in one fell swoop.
Are you a part-time Para, perchance?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Peet said:
INcluding both US governmental aid and remittances from private citizens to Israel?
ViolentPanda said:
I meant to the palestinian territories.
I think the only salvation for palestinians is to rout the islamists. With a constant level of subsistence aid there is no imperitivce for moderates to try.
There needs to be a clear victory for moderates in gaza and you won't get that while we constantly prop up the status quo.
Israel should agree to arm itself with C-RAM to avoid military incursions and then leave them to get on with it. Once the palestinian power struggle is over, Israel can then ask them what they want. If the answer is root and branch reform of palestinian society with an aim to build a state and there is evidence to suggest they are serious (ie a change of curriculum in education) we can then offer economic assistance to do so.
If the answer is still "death to Israel" then we (as in the capitalist democracies) should foucs our aid and diplocay efforts elsewhere.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
PartTimePongo said:I don't like terrorists so I'm a troll ?
It's not that you "don't like terrorists", it's the way that you express your dislike in the form of murderous hatred, without the slightest gesture at explaining why you have that opinion.
It means people can't work out whether you're rational or a fuckwit, trolling or making a point.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I know. I wanted to see if you had the balls to admit to your prejudice.Peet said:
So your solution is to use duress.
Do you have even a basic understanding of international law? No court would be able to hold the Palestinians to an agreement made under duress.
What happens when C-RAM doesn't work as expected (I'm presuming you noticed that most of the testing stages it has passed so far were simple single-target acquisition tests?)?
Me, I wouldn't put my trust in missile defence systems, especially ones based on a 60+ year-old premise.
Oh, and I love yur assumptions that Israel has the right to dictate in this matter, it's of a piece with the rest of your simplistic ouvre.
The thing with being "capitalist democracies" is that they're "free" to decide to do whatever they want, regardless of your wishes in the matter.
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
Peet said:
But part of the problem is that the money is not getting to the people it is getting creamed off along the way. I think that some sort of UN grouping should take charge of overseas donations (which also might encourage Israel to hand over the tax money that it owes) and spend this money ONLY on humanitarian actions and on infrastructure projects such as drainage and electricity etc. I think that the moderates will not come out of the wood work whilst a) the place is a mess economically, b) the Islamists are still running round with guns c) they feel confident to do so. Starving Gaza of funds is just going to pump up the boil of resentment that frankly needs to be lanced with targetted funds.
Peet said:
Up toa point I agree with you but I believe that there are ways to supply money in ways that doesn't entail it being used by Hamas to create more violence nor Fatah to line pockets.
Peet said:
C-RAM is an interesting tech but is only 60-70% effective. It could cause more problems for Israel if Islamist rockets are knocked off course and end up somewhere they shouldn't rather than in the Med which would be the ideal place to knock them. The Islamists and their misguided wester camp followers would use any tragedies from this for their own ends. Gaza would still have to be sealed from both the Israeli and the Egyptian ends. However, I think that it would be inhumane to do this to Gaza. Much better that the people are supported, the infrastructure is rebuilt, and economic conditions are improved to such an extent that the Islamists can be neutralised.
Peet said:
I agree with the carrot and stick approach re this but there needs to be enough carrot for people to abandon the Islamists who at present are the only 'Govt' in the PA.
ViolentPanda said:
Yes. While outside organisations, governments, NGO's and the likes are performing the natural duties of government there is no incentive for the actual government to do it.
This is nothing to do with reaching an agreement. It's just the west reserving the right NOT to provide aid. What palestinians do to eachother under duress is no business of anyones.
What happens when C-RAM doesn't work as expected (I'm presuming you noticed that most of the testing stages it has passed so far were simple single-target acquisition tests?)?
Me, I wouldn't put my trust in missile defence systems, especially ones based on a 60+ year-old premise.
According to a few milblogs, the CRAm in place has ensured not a single mortar has hit the ground. IT hs multiple target aquistion capability.
The fact it's a 60 year old premise makes it a developed and refined system. More likely to do the job than something just off the shelf. In any case it's designed to be used as an integrated , layered defence policy.
Isreal gets to dictate because it does occupy the land. It may not give it the moral right but posession is nine tenths of the law.
Largely because capatialist democracies are not in the business of butchering their own people.
KeyboardJockey said:
But the UN is a major culprit in cyphoning off funds.
That has been tried but it's still driven by outside influences. IT MUST come form the palestinian government. otherwise they are free to keep doing what they do.
But that resentment will be and IS focussed on Hamas and Fatah. That is why there is a civil war. The civil war is needed so the gangs with guns end up dead gangs with guns.
Bribing them not to kill each other just fuels the stalemate.
Suchas?
Were we talking about missles not rockets and mortars that might *just* be a valid point
Like they dont already?
how can you rebuild while armed gangs still roam?
Inhumane Is hamas's attitude to its own.
The latter has to come first.
The carrot is a peaceful palestinian state. But they have to work for it like wot the joos did.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
PartTimePongo said:
On the contrary, it is you who is deluded, cretin.
This is your first post on Urban too. Interesting, very interesting.
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