Discussion in 'London and the South East' started by editor, Sep 8, 2017.
The risk was huge.
I think National Rail and the British Transport Police still make some public safety films. For example
2016 Indy story about one
However the move to 24 hour broadcasting meant there were very few empty slots on the main channels they could be chucked into as filler so you don't get to see them on TV very much.
But not everybody does. I don't say that as an argument in favour of more handwringing, but risk is just that - a possibility of death or harm. I completely agree that trying to eliminate all possibilities is a fool's errand, but there has to be a balancing of risk (and the harms it carries) vs benefit.
Telling people not to jump off moving trains into water doesn't seem to me such an unreasonable thing to want to do.
TBF, the risk probably wasn't that enormous - but still significant - but the potential harm to the participants themselves was definitely huge. I know "risk assessment" gets a bad press (partly because it gets used as a proxy for "total risk avoidance", often stupidly so), but the notion of calculating a risk as <probability of something going wrong> x <likely harm resulting> seems a perfectly reasonable way of assessing it. In this case, there was a risk, but what is probably more significant is that the consequences of that risk arising were much more severe.
There was probably far more risk, for example, of my receiving an electric shock by taking a record player to pieces than of my getting electrocuted messing around by a railway line. But the severity of the risk was far smaller - lots of people get a mains electric shock and live to tell the tale (*raises hand*); but a very significant proportion of people who come into contact with the third rail - and an even more significant proportion of those who hit the overhead 25kV supply - will experience significant and permanent harm, if not death.
And that's just a simple example. As you point out, jumping from a moving train into a dock carries a multiplicity of risks, probably beyond quantifying, and, arguably, the consequences of those risks are mostly pretty severe.
Everyone has to pay taxes. Not everyone has to pay the "victim" surcharge.
And here is a perfect example of what is wrong here. "Tombstoning" - it's just jumping in to the sea, but rags like the fail go ape about it cos sounds dangerous and edgy. The name came about not cos of people getting deaded, but the position you adopt to jump is the same as a tombstone. And then there's the cold water shock mob also warning against this. Where are the howls of concern for folk that go Coasteering? It's essentially exactly the same activity, but done by slightly older people who have paid money to do it.
Yes. But it's done with a degree of supervision, with safety gear, people who know what to do if something goes wrong, and who know where the safe/dangerous places are. So it carries risk, but it's managed risk, both in terms of the risk itself, and the consequences should something go wrong.
Outdoor pursuits instructor died coasteering
Teenager Plunges From Rocks in Coasteering Accident
Family of teacher who died in Dorset sea cave calls inquest 'total sham'
Teenagers rescued after coasteering accident
I'm guessing they probably paid some attention to the risks eg depth of water, risk of immersion shock etc seeing as it was their lives on the line. Possibly more than people posting on here. Maybe not but they were right to think they'd get away with it cos they did. At the end of the day without the risk of death attached, illegality etc they wouldn't be doing it cos there would be no pay off.
Those 2 people are still not dead yet but have now have a memory of their butch cassidy moment. I think when they are told whatever they have is incurable it'll have been a worthwhile risk.
Do we know whether these lads did a proper reccy first? How do we know they didn't do a little exploratory dive first and have a little practice diving at the baths?
I didn't mean the situation was the same, only the reason people were objecting about money going into a pot potentially to help other people.
That's precisely the problem that I have with it; it's not going to victims, it's going to organisations who claim to help victims. Given how shit the justice system can be, and the frequency of failures that tend to happen when the state ropes in charities to do their work for them, I'm skeptical.
Plus, by calling it a victim surcharge, anyone who questions it can be accused of not caring for victims, the big meanies.
*they may have done a recce and some planning* - quite possibly, but the copycatting idiot probably will not ... and it is those I am also concerned about.
The local dimwits jump into the marina at Whitehaven fairly often (even when there was a sewage leak ... they walked past the warning signs to get to the end of the quay)
On one day this prompted some visitors - a family - to do the same, their smallest child got cramp and had great difficulty getting to safety. We are berthed just nearby, but have no tender for rescues ... the marina staff attended as they could see what was happening. Oh, and the local kids scarpered as soon as they realised that the family were in difficulty ... and these same kids regularly lob the life-rings into the water.
I'm criticising the nomenclature not objecting to a fine for trespass. Pretty much agreeing with NoXion 's earlier point.
Doctor: "I'm sorry to inform you that there is no cure for stupidity at this time."
Them, high-fiving: "TRAIN JUMP!"
Next time one of you moans about shoddy train service I’ll be reminding you of when you were bigging up one of the causes of service disruption.
The DLR train wasn't delayed
Good old selfish individualism.
I never said it was. People pissing around on rail infrastructure does cause delays though as if notified it has to be investigated.
Yeah, whatever, grandad.
It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt.
... this time.
You weren’t moaning about South West trains recently?
Then it’s hillarious instead.
Stupid punk went and killed himself hah hah. Darwin Award lolz!
South Western Railway. In 15 odd years of daily commuting never once was the delay down to people jumping from the train in to water.
I said people pissing about on the infrastructure.
Trespassers on the line does happen, invariably it is someone suffering a mental health breakdown rather than kids pratting about though.
Isn't this the system working then. It wasn't after all, a case of poorly maintained equipment, missing barriers or lax safety procedures. Most people already don't want to take such risks. These did, luckily no harm, caught, fined.
What's the problem.
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