Paedo Mania!!! - Is something dark lurking in the obsession?

[detective-boy]

...it was also therapists (not all of them fundies) trying to dig up repressed memories from adults who were coming up with the initial allegations.

The repressed memory saga was one of the very dodgy bits which the police were a bit slow in challenging (they don't like arguing with people with "-ologies"!) and which remains a very live issue in investigative interviewing technique even today.

 

[detective-boy]

Bollocks. No, really. Utter Bollocks.

Sorry. Where have I justifed any of the things you describe. None of them are appropriate. All of them were symptoms of a failure to challenge adequately what was being said by "experts". The only point I questioned was whether the Satanic Panic was led by the police, of which I had no recollection. I acknowledged from the outset that they had contributed to what followed.

MASSIVE changes in how child protection issues generally are dealt with, and how interviews with vulnerable people (adults as well as children) are conducted have been made and have been shown to be producing far more reliable evidence with far less damaging circumstances. I don't think you would be able to fund examples of what you decribe from the last few years though there are still areas of the country where the police have been slow to adopt new practices and certainly where they have little experience of applying them.

 

[weltweit]

I recognise that there have been issues (as outlined in the thread) but do not really see the "mania".

We have to face up to the issue that the news is really:

the BAD NEWS

I am sure there are plenty of good news stories that could be used to fill a lot of the pages / minutes of news but for some reason bad news is what we get ..

 

[ViolentPanda]

BB,

I'm really sad to hear that my friend. I wish I could say something positive, but there really isn't anything positive to say about horrible shit like that.

I was only on the far periphery of it, helping my friends in Paganlink campaign against what they saw as the fundies attempt to stir up a literal witch-hunt against 'alternative religions' in general, while callously fucking up the lives of innocent people for propaganda purposes and gloating about it in the media.

Brings to mind Chris Bray having his shop firebombed, what, 3 times, by so-called Christians (not to mention the attempted "monstering" by that paragon of investigative journalism known as Roger Cook)?

Remembering all of that horrible stuff, when our so-called public servants seemed to lose their minds and run around screaming with their hair on fire seeing their sordid Dennis Wheatly nightmares on every street corner, even in at the safe distance I saw it from, makes me extremely concerned when I see the likes of John Reid trying to stir up the same kind of hysterical panic, so obviously serviceable for their unpleasant agendas.

The problem lies in the fact that (unfortunately) moral panics are all too easy to activate and stimulate, and there are altogether too many people happy to ride on the coat-tails of such occurrences. I'm personally, even a decade and a half later, still appalled and amazed that there are social work and psychotherapeutic professionals still practicing who contributed to the SRA panic, shielded by their professional status.

 

[Spion]

Paedo-mania. It gets everywhere. Was I wrong to think this thread a little odd? http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=185692

 

[nino_savatte]

There have been loads of programmes and articles telling us that "actually muslims are generally very nice" i think radio 5 is the latest with that brand of patronising shite..
There have also been lots of earnest people telling us "not to worry about violent paedophiles as statistics show that where far more likely to abuse our own kids etc.....
No wonder the Liberal Left is so marginalised.

Nice spin there baldy but you're showing your true colours here. "Liberal left"? Don't make me fucking laugh!

 

[treelover]

re: filming children, in the very early 80's i was fortunate enough to have portable VCR equipment and would often just go out filming whatever caught my interest, tbh it was like being a celebrity, loads of people would come up to you asking to be filmed! Once on a local beach, I just let the camera roll and just followed the activity on the sands: naturally this would involve very long shots iof children making sandcastles, swimming, running around, etc (as well as their mothers!) Imagine if I was to do that now and what if i still had the video, I can't be the only one either who filmed in that naturaistic way, either for art or just to practice, scary and what an indictment of todays society.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Brings to mind Chris Bray having his shop firebombed, what, 3 times, by so-called Christians (not to mention the attempted "monstering" by that paragon of investigative journalism known as Roger Cook)?


The problem lies in the fact that (unfortunately) moral panics are all too easy to activate and stimulate, and there are altogether too many people happy to ride on the coat-tails of such occurrences. I'm personally, even a decade and a half later, still appalled and amazed that there are social work and psychotherapeutic professionals still practicing who contributed to the SRA panic, shielded by their professional status.

The woman who produced that "Dispatches" programme, the one that caused Genesis P'Orrige and his family to have to flee the country, because it represented an old performance art video of his (available from the bargain bin at HMV) as 'Exclusive footage of baby-eating Satanists holding a Black Mass" and caused Social Services to decide to take his kids away, was still doing very nicely thank you as a senior executive producer at Channel Four as of a few years ago.

 

[nino_savatte]

I am surprised that the media don't have any real pressing moral panics to latch onto (presumably they're bored rigid with cannabis stories). Does anyone remember the story of how some woman paediatrician was subjected to abuse because some illiterate tabloid-reading group of twats decided that the word "paediatrician" was the same as "paedophile"?

Then there are the Satanic Abuse cases of the 1980's....nuff said.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I think they do have one. 'Muslim Extremism'

It's got a lot more establishment backing both here and especially in the US, than a few nutty fundies programming journalists and social services people.

It fits in very nicely with all kinds of political agendas, offers plenty of opportunities for journalistic outrage and political grandstanding and provides an excellent rationale for introducing draconian measures which can later be used against anyone else that the government wants to go after.

 

[dash]

Does anyone remember the story of how some woman paediatrician was subjected to abuse because some illiterate tabloid-reading group of twats decided that the word "paediatrician" was the same as "paedophile"?

I remember that story: someone scrawled the word 'nonce' on the doctor's plaque outside their surgery. Could have been someone with a sense of humour rather than an 'illiterate tabloid-reading twat'.

 

[nino_savatte]

I remember that story: someone scrawled the word 'nonce' on the doctor's plaque outside their surgery. Could have been someone with a sense of humour rather than an 'illiterate tabloid-reading twat'.

Oh, how so? The woman in question was subjected to abuse on the basis that the word "paediatrician" has the same root as the word "paedophile".

You're going to have to come up with something better than "someone with a sense of humour" did it. This wasn't funny and if you think that it's 'humorous' then you're equally as guilty as the perpetrators.

 

[Jonti]

The BBC has a carefully researched piece about the incident here.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

The repressed memory saga was one of the very dodgy bits which the police were a bit slow in challenging (they don't like arguing with people with "-ologies"!) and which remains a very live issue in investigative interviewing technique even today.

This happened with someone who I was close to. Dodgy private therapists filled her head with guff stuff about muliple personalities and how remembering a bee collecting pollen was a signpost to a hidden memory of how she was raped as a child etc etc.

I happen to believe tht she was assaulted but the actions of the perveyors of multiple personality syndrome theory prevented her from getting the help with the real mental illness.

To go back to the Satanic Panic it is disgusting that years after the La Fontaine report social workers are still trotting off to fact free conspiraloon conferences and training run by the sort of fundies who we would normally cross the street to avoid.

I think that one of the most powerful things about what La Fontaine said was that 'some abuse may have ritual elements brought in to frighten and silence children but the idea that there is a lot of satanists going round abusing children as part of organised rings is nonsense.'

 

[Das Uberdog]

The most curious thing about this whole scenario is that child abuse, according to most all reputable sources, has not increased one jot since records began. There are no more cases now than there ever have been, yet today we are subjected to participation in a witch-hunt to track down or pursue legal action against suspected paedophiles whilst simultaneously bowing to pressure o have their legal rights and entitlements eroded.

Of course, there's the issue that the image of the strange guy waiting by the school-gates is completely and utterly un-representative of the majority of cases of child molestation - most paedophiles abuse their own children or related to themselves through family or institutional structure - so it really isn't the 'strangers' we should be worrying about in this case (same argument as with rape). Also, that it is not an entirely male phenomenon - however, in female cases it is underreported and when cases come to trial, punishments are less severe (in some cases nonexistant) and it's generally and genuinely not seen or felt as anywhere near as much of a threat.

So this whole panic is interminably intertwined with this image of the sexually rapacious, predatory male which has reached such a crisis stage at which arguably, the near fervent and manic ecclesiastical ravings of the tabloid press over the issue may actually make recovery more difficult for the abused due to the percieved extent and violation of the crime committed against them (the same could be said equally, of most sexually related assaults) Which in some cases goes over and above rationality...

Whatever said, I feel that the huge panic over paedophilia is attacking the ideas that gender and sex are not necessarily causal factors in behaviour over and above societal experience (an argument I vehemently oppose), especially in the case of men who are again being depicted as brute savages.

All goes with the argument; 'you need a man to protect you from all these nasty men, girls'. Also justifies feminazi rantings about gender segregation + etceteraaaa.

Not good in all.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

I am surprised that the media don't have any real pressing moral panics to latch onto (presumably they're bored rigid with cannabis stories). Does anyone remember the story of how some woman paediatrician was subjected to abuse because some illiterate tabloid-reading group of twats decided that the word "paediatrician" was the same as "paedophile"?

Then there are the Satanic Abuse cases of the 1980's....nuff said.

I think that they are tabloid believing twats to be honest :-(

 

[nino_savatte]

The BBC has a carefully researched piece about the incident here.

Thanks for that. I also remember seeing something on BBC News about a group of 'concerned citizens' in Southampton who were walking about the streets of their estate looking for 'paedos'.

 

[nino_savatte]

I think that they are tabloid believing twats to be honest :-(

The tabloids have to bear some responsibility for the cheap sensationalism that spurs folk into committing acts of crime against innocent people. of course, they won't accept responsibility.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Thanks for that. I also remember seeing something on BBC News about a group of 'concerned citizens' in Southampton who were walking about the streets of their estate looking for 'paedos'.

Nino, prepare yourself for the inevitable onslaught of posters saying 'oh but we can't possibly criticise the working classes going out to look for 'nonces' ' Sorry a wanker is a wanker is a wanker no matter what class they are.

The trouble is these 'peado hunts' inevitably end up catching no peados but end up in attacks on any one who is 'different' in some way.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino, prepare yourself for the inevitable onslaught of posters saying 'oh but we can't possibly criticise the working classes going out to look for 'nonces' ' Sorry a wanker is a wanker is a wanker no matter what class they are.

Agreed.

I expect tbaldwin will show up and say the things that you've said here.

 

[the button]

The most curious thing about this whole scenario is that child abuse, according to most all reputable sources, has not increased one jot since records began.

In the first full year after it was launched (twenty years ago), ChildLine counselled 8663 children about sexual abuse. Last year, ChildLine counselled 9279 children about sexual abuse. For the whole of its 20-year history, that figure's stayed roughly the same, always 8 or 9 thousand. Makes you think.

 

[weltweit]

Makes you think.

Makes you think what ?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Makes you think what ?

What are the powers that be gaining by everyone being scared of imaginary predatory peados for a start.

 

[weltweit]

Oh ok, I just wondered if you thought that some people, paedos, are just born like that? Because it is kind of what I think, I mean why would someone choose to be like that?

 

[nino_savatte]

Oh ok, I just wondered if you thought that some people, paedos, are just born like that? Because it is kind of what I think, I mean why would someone choose to be like that?

There is a school of thought which says that it is a sexual preference. But like some sexual preferences, it is shaped and influenced by events in childhood.

 

[dash]

Oh, how so? The woman in question was subjected to abuse on the basis that the word "paediatrician" has the same root as the word "paedophile".

You're going to have to come up with something better than "someone with a sense of humour" did it. This wasn't funny and if you think that it's 'humorous' then you're equally as guilty as the perpetrators.

Well, Your Honour, around the same time there was a sketch on the Harry Enfield show, in which Tim-Nice-But-Dim is introduced to a man at a party who says he's a paedriatrician, getting Tim to respond something like: "Oh gosh, I can't say I approve, but jolly good of you to be honest about it" - or words to that effect.

So if Harry Enfield saw some humorous potential in misunderstanding the word 'paedriatrician', it's quite possible the person who wrote on the plaque did too. Whether you regard it as a good joke or not is a matter of opinion, not of fact.

 

[weltweit]

[for nino..]

If you mean "abused" becomes "abuser" yes i have heard of that theory .. not nice .. well none of it is nice ..

There is paranioa undoubtedly, my child's school sent out letters ordering none of us to bring cameras to the school play unless we had received permission by ALL the parents involved in case their children were also in our photographs, luckily in our case common sense ruled, all the parents (APART from me who is a very keen photographer but who feared action from parents and school) all came with their cameras and vidocams with a fingers up attitude to the school who .. predictably .. did absolutely nothing ..

.. made my blood boil though that ..

 

[Bernie Gunther]

What are the powers that be gaining by everyone being scared of imaginary predatory peados for a start.

I think it's a sort of side effect of a convergence of interests. Papers are interested in salacious and outrage stories because they sell papers. Fundies were interested in promoting their world view and slagging off new-age religions. Social workers were for the most part actually interested in protecting children but a significant number of the ones most involved were also fundies and were also interested in promoting fundie propaganda. So they established a big panic about it, intially around their SRA fantasies.

By the time the SRA stories all disintegrated due to the utter absence of any actual evidence, the papers already had an established market for paedo panic stories, over and above any actual cases that they might have previously reported soberly. So they kept churning them out.

You may recall also that about the time all the SRA cases self-destructed, in the first half of the 90's, the Internet was becoming the next big thing, and it was discovered that there was a market niche for 'internet paedo panic' stories that was serviceable for the agendas of people who were upset about the destructive impact of the internet on censorship in general.

So it got another boost around that. No one agenda was responsible, but rather a conjunction of interests had the overall effect of promoting panic.

 

[nino_savatte]

Well, Your Honour, around the same time there was a sketch on the Harry Enfield show, in which Tim-Nice-But-Dim is introduced to a man at a party who says he's a paedriatrician, getting Tim to respond something like: "Oh gosh, I can't say I approve, but jolly good of you to be honest about it" - or words to that effect.

So if Harry Enfield saw some humorous potential in misunderstanding the word 'paedriatrician', it's quite possible the person who wrote on the plaque did too. Whether you regard it as a good joke or not is a matter of opinion, not of fact.

Those are two very different things and your ignorance is beginning to grate.

 

[Blagsta]

Oh ok, I just wondered if you thought that some people, paedos, are just born like that? Because it is kind of what I think, I mean why would someone choose to be like that?

I don't believe that people are born with it, I also don't think people choose it either. Possibly there is a genetic predisposition but I also think that it has something to do with emotional development going awry.