Paedo Mania!!! - Is something dark lurking in the obsession?

[spanglechick]

i think people are perversely attracted to the worst of humanity. Films about torture and mutilation have a similar appeal to news stories about the worst crimes we can conceive of.


i once read a true crime / biography of fred and rose west. It made me sick to my stomach, and i had to stop reading it. But my mum was talking about a book she's just read on Neilsen (sp?) and I was curious to read it - even though, rationally, i don't think i'd enjoy it or even find it palteable.

 

[danny la rouge]

Which sort of thing will often be ascribed to "political correctness gone mad", but in fact the villain is hysteria whipped up by precisely those newspapers which are most likely to employ the phrase...

Indeed so.

 

[Blagsta]

It's classic "othering" - let's project all our fears into those people over there, y'know, the weird middle age bloke that still lives with his mum, because then we don't have to face up to the fact that child abuse is usually perpetrated by otherwise "normal" looking people within families and extended families.

 

[danny la rouge]

It's classic "othering" - let's project all our fears into those people over there, y'know, the weird middle age bloke that still lives with his mum, because then we don't have to face up to the fact that child abuse is usually perpetrated by otherwise "normal" looking people within families and extended families.

Correct. And the reason we don't want to look into it is that we may find out something about our society that we don't want to find out.

 

[detective-boy]

Remember the 'Satanic Panics' of the 80's? Hundreds of kids taken into care, families split, lives destroyed. When the dust settled it turned out to have been entirely a figment of the over-active imaginations of some fundie social workers and cops, all excited by briefings from US fundies with an agenda.

You got a link demonstrating the police were actively involved in imagining this (as opposed to acting on the information received by the social workers and putting the evidence of psychologists / psychiatrists in front of the Courts.

I agree they could well have been more critical and challenging but my recollection is not that the police invented this initially. (Unlike the Hells Angels threat / COmbat 18 threat / Angel Dust threat and dozens of others which did originate in police intelligence units! )

 

[Blagsta]

Correct. And the reason we don't want to look into it is that we may find out something about our society that we don't want to find out.

Innit. We you have tabloids screaming about paedos on one hand and counting down to Charlotte Church's 16th birthday on the other...

 

[pogofish]

Your point is some people overreact to paedophile paranoia.Mine is that there is loads of sex offenders getting away with continued offences and that far from being overzealous social services are more likely to be bloody useless when they do have serious suspicions.

Problem is that the sort of social workers who are into the satanic-panic type of thing are often so tied-up with their pet perversion that they are quite unable to spot blatent abuse/neglect/other issues in kids. I have plenty of experience of this, with kids who were suffering badly & the complete inaction of certain social workers who were involved in the South Ronaldsay debacle & with a child who was being abused by some guy called Thomas Hamilton who later caused a bit of a stir.

Even after censure & transfer to another authority (none of them lost their jobs) the senior social workers involved were back in the groove & hiring-in American fundamentalist "experts" on satnic abuse for "training seminars" for their new staff.

 

[Blagsta]

I'd hate to be a social worker. Slagged off when you do act, slagged off when you don't. Fuck that for a game of soldiers.

 

[detective-boy]

I'd hate to be a social worker. Slagged off when you do act, slagged off when you don't. Fuck that for a game of soldiers.

You forgot "And desperately overworked / underresourced". They have a no-win situation all round.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

You got a link demonstrating the police were actively involved in imagining this (as opposed to acting on the information received by the social workers and putting the evidence of psychologists / psychiatrists in front of the Courts.

I agree they could well have been more critical and challenging but my recollection is not that the police invented this initially. (Unlike the Hells Angels threat / COmbat 18 threat / Angel Dust threat and dozens of others which did originate in police intelligence units! )

No link alas although I could probably find one if you really insist.

My criticism of the cops would be mainly along the same lines as yours, that they failed to exercise a properly critical view of the evidence (or lack thereof)

My main source would be Professor La Fontaine's book, which as far as I can recall isn't online. I read a whole bunch of other stuff on this issue though because I knew some people at Paganlink who were understandably upset. Some of that other stuff, which I can probably dig out if you really want me to, did suggest that senior police officers who were themselves fundies themselves played a role in their poor handling of these cases, I think particularly in Scotland.

 

[pogofish]

You got a link demonstrating the police were actively involved in imagining this

Maybe not in the initial imagining but certainly in next stage. They came-in for a lot of criticism in the enquiry afterwards for their methods & I've come across several officers over the years - sometimes quite senior ones whose attitudes toward anything with "satanic"/pagan connections was identical to those social workers.

 

[weltweit]

what is a "fundie"?

 

[Blagsta]

Fundamentalist.

 

[detective-boy]

Some of that other stuff, which I can probably dig out if you really want me to, did suggest that senior police officers who were themselves fundies themselves played a role in their poor handling of these cases, I think particularly in Scotland.

No, don't go to any trouble, it's not that important. It's just that I had the impression that the whole thing kicked off with the social workers who then engaged the police in the whole thing. I know that (at least some of) the police involved as it progressed did seem to get enthused about the whole thing.

I was just distinguishing between the starting of it and getting involved once it's underway.

 

[detective-boy]

They came-in for a lot of criticism in the enquiry afterwards for their methods ...

And uite rightly too. Even setting aside the fact that the interviewing of children was nowhere near as well understood / managed as it is now, some of the investigations were an object lesson in how NOT to keep an open mind and seek the truth so far as I can recall!

 

[Bernie Gunther]

No, don't go to any trouble, it's not that important. It's just that I had the impression that the whole thing kicked off with the social workers who then engaged the police in the whole thing. I know that (at least some of) the police involved as it progressed did seem to get enthused about the whole thing.

I was just distinguishing between the starting of it and getting involved once it's underway.

Yes, that's fair enough. That is also my understanding.

What had happened was that US fundies with an agenda and lots of money behind them were running these 'awareness seminars' for social workers (and I think possibly also cops) The allegations started with (fundie) social workers and related professions in this country however, then as you say, some cops, particularly fundie cops, got 'enthused'.

ETA: The US fundies, and later their UK disciples were also, as I recall, running a PR campaign which was briefing the media and helping stir up hysteria.

 

[tbaldwin]

Ah yes, the speaker for the silent majority.

or rather the fuckwit that shouts the loudest that 'something' has to be done because it wll make him feel better. Do you think it is helpfull to the victims of abuse that people are screaming for them to be hurt when most abuse is perpetrated by someone known to the victim?

I dont think that all abused people will be of the same opinion.But i think the majority want tougher punishments and less reoffending by sex offenders.
And i think thats what most people want.

But the view of the majority is overruled by the establishment.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

No, don't go to any trouble, it's not that important. It's just that I had the impression that the whole thing kicked off with the social workers who then engaged the police in the whole thing. I know that (at least some of) the police involved as it progressed did seem to get enthused about the whole thing.

I was just distinguishing between the starting of it and getting involved once it's underway.

Just reading the intro to Prof La Fontaine's book. It wasn't just (mostly fundie) child protection workers, it was also therapists (not all of them fundies) trying to dig up repressed memories from adults who were coming up with the initial allegations.

Although none of the latter seem to have made it to court, they were being taken as confirmation of the stuff the social workers who'd been on the 'awareness seminars' and sympathetic colleagues were inventing.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Here's some testimony from survivors of the 'Satanic Panic' mass-hysteria.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/real_story/4602302.stm

I wonder are we going to be reading similar stories about 'Muslim Terrorism Panic' mass-hysteria survivors a decade or two from now?

Or will those stories remain a state secret?

 

[pogofish]

What had happened was that US fundies with an agenda and lots of money behind them were running these 'awareness seminars' for social workers (and I think possibly also cops) The allegations started with (fundie) social workers and related professions in this country however, then as you say, some cops, particularly fundie cops, got 'enthused'.

ETA: The US fundies, and later their UK disciples were also, as I recall, running a PR campaign which was briefing the media and helping stir up hysteria.

Yes, many of those seminars were also paid-for with public money. One of the Scottish schools they used most often for them was in my group - partly because its senior management was equally dominated by fundies (I remember disciplinary action being taken against one new teacher who held a halloween party for her class. They lost but she still quit the profession) who welcomed them & for one year in the late 80s, the largest part of the social work training budget for my authority was spent on those cranks.

Similarly, yes there was a major press PR/campaign going-on at the same time.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

<snip>

for one year in the late 80s, the largest part of the social work training budget for my authority was spent on those cranks

<snip>

 

[Bernie Gunther]

All I can say is that whenever someone asks you to buy in to mass hysteria, like John Reid's current one, please remember the 'Satanic Panics'

What a fucking sad story of human misery inflicted on hundreds of innocent families to serve someone's shitty agenda.

 

[pogofish]

Even today, a good number of the senior management (up to directorate level) are names you would recognise from the report.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Even today, a good number of the senior management (up to directorate level) are names you would recognise from the report.

I notice that Rochdale tried to get an injunction to surpress that BBC report.

I notice that the BBC report also mentions that the key social workers there are still running around loose and following their profession.

 

[pogofish]

Yup, more in in my authority than any other I believe.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

It sounds like the Rochdale kids are suing their local authority, from that BBC link.

It does seem a pity though, when local authority finance and asset management types get suspended all the time for corruption, that people who let their allegiance to fundamentalist agendas influence their professional behaviour in such a damaging way are still running round loose and have even in some cases been promoted.

 

[Backatcha Bandit]

It sounds like the Rochdale kids are suing their local authority, from that BBC link.

Having had first hand experience personal of the horrific effects of the maniacal zealotry and total disregard for even the most basic procedures exhibited by Police in such circumstances, I feel compelled to state my deep respect for the 'Rochdale Kids' and the bravery that thay and their parents exhibit in their willingness to re-live such an awful ordeal.

I will add that perhaps if 'Detective Boy' himself were to witness for himself the abject terror that still, to this day, consumes a certain little girl at the mere sight of an officer in uniform - the result of the trauma from seeing her dad dragged away in handcuffs before being cornered by an officer towering over her and asking in a menacing tone whether 'Daddy had touched her in naughty places' - he might well temper the piety with which he defends those in 'authority'.

setting aside the fact that the interviewing of children was nowhere near as well understood / managed as it is now

Bollocks. No, really. Utter Bollocks.

As if the ordeal related above was not enough, turning up in a marked car and boldly marching up the garden path with the kids pyjamas in a bag emblazened with the legend 'Evidence' really helped still the wagging tongues of 'PK-esque' neighbours and their media inspired lynch-mob mentality.

And all thanks to what I can only assume to be the poor personal hygeine habits of, quite literally, some 'wanker' in a lab.

Sickening.

The damage done to the family in question - the mental anguish, upheaval, pain and suffering really does defy description. And you come here to lecture us on the dangers of 'Terrorism'?

Fuck you.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

BB,

I'm really sad to hear that my friend. I wish I could say something positive, but there really isn't anything positive to say about horrible shit like that.

I was only on the far periphery of it, helping my friends in Paganlink campaign against what they saw as the fundies attempt to stir up a literal witch-hunt against 'alternative religions' in general, while callously fucking up the lives of innocent people for propaganda purposes and gloating about it in the media.

Remembering all of that horrible stuff, when our so-called public servants seemed to lose their minds and run around screaming with their hair on fire seeing their sordid Dennis Wheatly nightmares on every street corner, even in at the safe distance I saw it from, makes me extremely concerned when I see the likes of John Reid trying to stir up the same kind of hysterical panic, so obviously serviceable for their unpleasant agendas.

 

[Backatcha Bandit]

I'm really sad to hear that my friend. I wish I could say something positive, but there really isn't anything positive to say about horrible shit like that.

Thanks, Bernie.

In my more 'illiberal' moments I feel that there is perhaps one 'good' thing to come out of such events, in that the young mind that is the victim in the above is not growing up with any 'illusions' to shatter regarding the true nature of 'authority', in that the letters 'A, C, A & B' have been indellibly branded into it at such a formative stage.

-

That said, rationality forces me to concede that those who choose to 'serve' in that particular profession - occasionally for the purest of motives - are unlikey on a day-to-day basis in the 'execution' of their duty to see the majority of their fellow humans 'at their best' as it were.

I can only speculate that if I were in such a similar position myself, I might be less inclined to offer the benefit of any doubt to those that might find themselves subjected to my 'professional discretion'.

In other words - I'm not really surprised that coppers act like total cunts, as many of the people they are obliged to deal with in their professional capacity are probably acting like cunts at the time.

I myself worked for more than five of my earlier years in a profession that brought me into close contact with known sex offenders to whom I owed a duty of care. I must admit that on occasions I found it very difficult to overcome my own revulsion and antipathy toward those whos interests I was obliged to protect.

Fortunately I had the ablity and opportunity to pursue a completely different career path, thus was able to escape before my personal feelings overcame my judgement, although I had colleagues who were not so fortunate. To my shame, I did less than I could have to prevent the consequences of their inevitable burn-out.

I can only hope that by reading the accounts of victims such as the 'Rochdale kids', those who are in a position to temper and moderate the immediate, emotionally driven reactions such emotive issues elicit (within any of us with a pulse) - be it in Social Services, the Police or the Media - act with intelligence and restraint.

And bravery, when necessary.


...can you hear the ghost of Edward Bernays whispering... "Fat Chance!"

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

There have been loads of programmes and articles telling us that "actually muslims are generally very nice" i think radio 5 is the latest with that brand of patronising shite..
There have also been lots of earnest people telling us "not to worry about violent paedophiles as statistics show that where far more likely to abuse our own kids etc.....
No wonder the Liberal Left is so marginalised.

Actually I agree with the OP. The actual chances of any child being abducted by a paedophile are very, very slim. Yet it's portrayed that they are lurking on every street corner just waiting to whisk your little poppet away.

It means that parents are afraid to let their children play out, which means more time in front of TVs and computers, which means children getting fatter, which is doing them more harm than good in the long run. A whole generation of kids are growing up who never just go out and enjoy themselves like even I did as a kid in the inner city in the early 80s. It's fucking sad.