Discussion in 'Dulwich Hamlet FC' started by Pink Panther, Nov 28, 2019.
He certainly has his angry head on a lot these days.
Clunis - 1
Monakana - 1
Hunte - 1
Yusuff - 1
Vose - 1
White - 0
Chapman - 0
Monlouis - 0
[Ainsworth - 0]
[Dempsey - 0]
Feels like a far greater cause for concern than Danny Mills. Systemic issue or a case of poorly performing individuals?
Ijaha is our second top scorer with three so I can only suggest just using him as a battering ram up top.
It couldn't possibly be systematic. Wash your mouth out.
It's the players, I tell you. All of those highly experienced, technically-astute players we've got. It's their fault. Blame them.
Well this just supports my point that there are few goals In the team, which was the cause for concern I raised.
However, Danny Mills has started nearly every league game and only has 6 league goals. That’s not great either. I would hardly say our attack isn’t a cause for concern. Although, I’d like to add that at no point did I say Mills was a cause for concern. I like him. Good player.
He has, hasn't he. This was my favourite. Absolutely livid, he was.
Out of interest, pettyboy, if the apocalypse came and you could only save Gavin or Danny Mills, which one would you save and why?
I’d save Mills. I like him.
I'd save Moss.
And our internationally-capped midfielder Monlouis.
That wasn't a terrible performance but like others have said we just keep doing the same things wrong time and time again and never seem to learn from our mistakes. We continue to give away stupid goals and we're not sharp enough in front of the opposition goal. We've also got players playing out of position (David Ijaha for one on Saturday) and I'm not sure Gavin knows how to turn things around. We've now had no league wins in our last 15 games which is more than 1/3 of the entire season! That's absolutely shocking for a side with our budget and the players we have. We have some very winnable games in the rest of December and we need at least 6 points from these 4 games to arrest the malaise. Much as I like him and all his done for our club, if we don't manage that I think it's time for Gavin to go both for his sake and for ours.
For me, we need to have our best players playing consistently in their best positions. This means 1 or 2 of Ijaha, C. Smith, Taylor playing in defensive midfield and a ball-playing central defensive player alongside Orlu. I feel that our central defensive weaknesses have never really been properly addressed and this is where I'd have recruited wisely so that Smith could be released into his best role which in my opinion is as a defensive midfielder. Up front we still don't get people close enough to Danny so much of his excellent work is wasted, but I feel we've got marginally better at this recently or maybe Danny is compensating better for our shortcomings! I've no idea what Connors has done to be dropped! I think he's been one of our best players this season and should go straight back in at left-back. Ainsworth is great! Hope he doesn't have a massive dip after a few games like some others have.
What about Dipo? You are his Dad too!
In Gavin we trust! The fact is the team are playing shit and the management look clueless.
The fact is the team looks clueless. Ultimately it's the management's responsibility to resolve that. Personally I'd say it's now a worry the situation is drifting for so long without any apparent improvement.
And the last 10 years work. What does that mean?
It means Gavin is still in a job and has been given more time to turn this around than I believe any other club in this league would give their manager.
It's probably called "credit in the bank".
If (for example) Steve King, or Bobby Wilkinson, or Glen Driver had been appointed last May/June and we were where we are now it would look a bit messy. Personally I'd like to think Gavin (& Junior) know this club better than most of us and are shrewd enough to gauge whether or not they've taken us as far as they can. We've never had a better manager as far as I'm concerned, I like consistency and continuity, and when he eventually leaves (whether that's this season or in ten seasons time) I desperately want it to be on his terms.
I don't chat to them but I'm sure they must be as disappointed as we are.
Personally think Gavin is a top class manager, but he cuts a lonely figure of late and I’m not just talking about this season. Is he truly committed to the cause? He seems quick to blame the players and the constant chopping and changing and the letting go of players who can’t commit to his full time regime is not producing the goods. Where are the leaders in this team I struggle to see any player who really steps up to fulfil that role they all look really nervous as if they are scared about what Gav may do if they make a mistake which inevitably means they do make mistakes and lots of them. I hope he can turn it around and as for leaving on his terms no one is bigger than the club not even Gav.
I didn't have you down as the sentimental type, B.I.G.
No one is saying that counts for nothing. That whole 'finishing higher than the previous season' thing is mightily impressive, it really is, and I say that as someone who's clearly not been particularly pro-Gavin for the last few seasons. Personally, I think that record pales in comparison when compared to the fact that 15 of our players have gone to League clubs since he started. That's absolutely unparalleled and an incredible achievement.
But we're not dealing with what's occured over the past ten seasons: we're dealing with now and right now we have the worst form in the division by a fair chalk, despite having a good budget, a good squad and three training sessions per week. This isn't a blip - it's gone on since August. I actually think it has echoes of the other time during time during Gavin's reign when we bumped up the budget and signed proven players like Waldren, Erskine, Moss, Scannell: jittery form, an underperforming side, peculiar signings and players banished to the bench/sidelines for sustained periods of time. At least in that season we got into the play offs, but this time round it's weak, turgid, wooden, week after week.
I've said it before so I won't repeat myself too much, but I actually think Gavin has stagnated in the last few seasons. I think he's too comfortable and fixated on this very particular brand of possession-based football that frankly, most of the teams in our division (and arguably the division below (ref: the games that were single-handedly won by Carew or Allassani)) seem to have sussed. If you look at Bath and Wealdstone's performances this season then they were tactically miles ahead of us, regardless of the result. I think back to some of the earlier Gavin years and the football was bright and attacking: the cup final against Concord at Maidstone is always a prominent example for me. Concord were a division above and managed by the midas-esque Cowleys but we were highly competitive despite being clear underdogs. I look at us now and over the last few seasons and can't really imagine us turning in the same impassioned, exciting performance.
I get what Pink Panther means about wanting to see Gavin move on on his own terms and part of me was quietly hoping that we would roll Carlisle over, they'd sack Pressley and come in for Gavin. But we're at a point now where we can't afford to hold out for him to happily skip off into the sunset. If he's bitten off more than he can chew in terms of the budget and the players he's brought in then that's not the club's problem - or rather, it's not a problem that the club should burden.
I hate Steve King. I think he's a snivelling mercenary who scuttles from one affluent club to another. His football is unsporting and at least a handful of his players are always complete bellends. At the start of the season I was glad to see that he hadn't squirmed his way into our dugout, but I'm genuinely starting to wonder if just changing things would have been for the better.
Christ. That was longer than I thought. I knew that pint of Ritalin was a risky idea.
Would like to see Mills out of the team for a couple games even though I think he's our best player. I know that will cause outrage but maybe we'll stop lumping the ball up to him when no one supports what he does. See, how it goes...just saying.
You don’t have to answer to me Moroccan Sunset. I understand where you are coming from. You have spent all those years in the trenches before us and with us.
I might be the only person that would he happy if we were relegated. I don’t understand the constant need to go higher, what is up there that is so great. What do we get? We have lost enough as it is on the way.
I never would have sacked Saunders at Maidstone for example, not while he still wanted to do the job.
Sometimes people speak of how Gav needs an exceptional player or exceptional players to win, and we get those players through him no?
We get relegated and Gavin's legacy will be moving up 1 league in 10yrs despite having a massive fan base and media profile. A club going backwards isn't going to help with the development issue. We know you don't care and yearn for a Phoenix club supported by drunks in track pants.
Track pants ??
That’s a fair cop tbf.
BIG has a point. In the Isthmian leagues we won most of our games and 500 supporters sang louder than 2000 do now. It's great to compete at a higher level but I doubt we could survive in the Conference National division. We always try to play attractive football. What if we got relegated, kept Gav and were Isthmian Premier Champions the next year? Different perspective. Or we could get Sammy Moore in for a season and he could teach the team to win by conning the ref and cheating?
Agreed. I don't think the crowd is directly linked to the level of football - if we got relegated I don't think they'd drop to 500 but I agree with the general point.
I do wonder where things end up from here tbh. A few seasons ago it felt like there was something exciting - there was a great atmosphere and the team was playing well and winning more often than not. Now the crowd is pushing up against the limits of the ground (and the atmosphere is gone) and maybe the team is reaching it's limit as well, I don't know. All clubs have ups and downs of course but for most you know what their 'natural' level is and what the hardcore crown is when things are going badly. At Dulwich though there has been a more substantial change though (with possibly a new ground to come) - where does that settle down though?
So... not thinking we can survive at a higher level?
I’ll bet there were Bromley fans who thought the same & now they’re on the cusp of the Football League.
As for those who think the National League National isn’t for us, or even our current level & would be happy to see us drop back into the Isthmian League , all I can say is: why do you bother to come to games at all?
I want us to win every game I watch us play & by the very nature of success if you win more than you lose you will inevitably progress upwards.
If you want to enjoy your football in crowds of 500 or so in the Isthmian League there’s other London area clubs you can find to match what you want...as someone who remembers year after year stuck in Division One South of the Isthmian League in front of a few hundred, or a couple of dozen going away, I don’t want to go back to losing to the likes of Banstead Athletic, Molesey or Whyteleafe thank you very much.
If the worst comes to the worst & we go down then we will have a big budget with large crowds & id certainly be hopeful of us bouncing straight back up, rather than settling back in to keep a few fans on here happy who see coming to Champion Hill as a nice day out rather than wanting their team to win games and get promoted one day.
As for current season: I’m sure Gavin & his off-field team are just as unhappy as the rest of us. I’d like to think he will know if he can turn things around or not. I person would persevere with what he is trying to achieve precisely because of what he has achieved. I’d also like to think that he would know when the time is right to step aside rather than be forced out.... but nothing lasts forever, and we really do needs some wins on the board soon or our directors will have some tough decisions to make.
As it stands: much respect to them for not making any rash decisions so far, call me old fashioned but I’m quite proud of the fact we’ve never been a ‘sacking club’!
The Champion Hill Stalker strikes
You're not becoming any less of a dick are you?
If you look at the other side of it, which I'm sure you won't question at all, you want to win every game, which means inevitably you will be promoted to a level at which you can't survive, which means you will lose almost every week and reach a point at which you are only barely surviving. Like Maidstone in the National, Macclesfield in the league, what is the point? Dulwich has always been a non-league club and you now have stated ambitions to be a league club, and I ask what will you get out of that? Do you have unlimited money for travel? For the cost of entry?
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