Oxfam sex allegations

Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by nardy, Feb 13, 2018.

  1. Celyn

    Celyn Well-Known Member

    In the kingdom of the bland, the one-eyed snake is king?
    xenon likes this.
  2. Smangus

    Smangus comatose at a desk

    He's a Catholic fundamentalist , that's bad enough.
    NoXion and Celyn like this.
  3. tim

    tim Well-Known Member

    Assuming the last emergency you worked on has abated, there is no real reason for a new employer to surprised that you have moved on.
  4. Celyn

    Celyn Well-Known Member

    A bit of a tangent but it reminds me of a Christy Moore song of a while ago.
    (CM didn't write it. Was written by John Maguire)

    (Beware, it takes a while for actual song to happen). ETA - about 1.16

    Sorry, that's all a bit of faffing about, maybe? I think it's just that I remembered the thing more from hearing CM do it quite baldly at a folk festival, so the whole non fundamentalist thing was more clear in that version.
  5. xenon

    xenon Carne Por la Machina

    They love a disaster a crisis these type then. The predatory ones. As well as the disaster experts. Even more reason to get references.
  6. Celyn

    Celyn Well-Known Member

    However, an organisation the size of Oxfam is never short of available emergencies, is it, really?

    I wonder how tricky the legalities of references in fact are. Now, if you are organisation A, and a naughty person agrees to resign and then will go and work for organisation B, the more cynical people of A might think "bloody good - he gets another good job therefore will not sulk and talk about us".

    Look, I can see that a lot of carefulness of references is necessary, but surely there might exist some useful phrases like "Bloggs did a lot of good work for us, and although we did have a small chat regarding the extent to which he took on board our organisation's ethics and values, he's OK really and helps old people to cross the road. Oh, and he is also quite good to his pet goldfish. So, damn good sort, really".

    And I bet all of us could invent better bits of damning with faint praise if we tried.
  7. Sasaferrato

    Sasaferrato T'agba ta ti de, a ma yo ogunja.

    I'm not defending him, he's a pillock. I'm defending the principle that you don't accuse someone of corruption without evidence.
  8. Sasaferrato

    Sasaferrato T'agba ta ti de, a ma yo ogunja.

    On tablet in pit, so will need to check later, but IIRC, he came from very ordinary circumstances, the plummy voice is his invention.
  9. He’s such a fundie that he opposes abortion even in cases of rape and incest, yet is happy to personally profit from the sale of abortion drugs.

    Good enough for you? Or is that kind of shit par for the course for a Tory?
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  10. Sasaferrato

    Sasaferrato T'agba ta ti de, a ma yo ogunja.

    Going back to sleep, me and the cat.
  11. Sue

    Sue Well-Known Member

    I think we have very different views on what constitutes 'very ordinary circunstances'. :rolleyes:

    "Rees-Mogg was born to a wealthy family in Hammersmith, London, and was educated at Dragon School and Eton College. He studied History at Trinity College, Oxford, and was president of the Oxford University Conservative Association. He worked in the City of London for Lloyd George Management until 2007. He then co-founded hedge fund management business Somerset Capital Management LLP.[1][2][3] Rees-Mogg amassed a significant fortune: in 2016, he and his wife had a combined net worth estimated at more than £100 million.'

    Jacob Rees-Mogg - Wikipedia
  12. Sasaferrato

    Sasaferrato T'agba ta ti de, a ma yo ogunja.

    You are right, I am wrong, couldn't resist a look at Wiki. I had the impression that he was from ordinary circumstances, and the voice etc was an invention. His origin couldn't be much more posh.
  13. Sasaferrato

    Sasaferrato T'agba ta ti de, a ma yo ogunja.

    Of course not, you know me better than that.
  14. happie chappie

    happie chappie Well-Known Member

    I’ve got a dog in the fight as I’ve had a direct debit with Oxfam since I started work (35 years ago) so I’ve given them thousands of pounds over the years as well as volunteering.

    I won’t be cancelling my direct debit as I won’t really be punishing the charity but some of the most vulnerable people in the world.

    The reports may be a Trojan horse for some people to argue that we should cut or even end foreign aid but I’m not sure what the media should have done with the information about the abuse once they knew about it. Ignore it? Suppress it?

    In any case it’s likely that the source/s of the information either work or worked for Oxfam. How else would it get out?

    While the alleged behavior of some aid workers is absolutely abhorrent it’s the cover up that’s the real story here.

    If they had been sacked and banned from ever working in this field again the story wouldn’t have the legs it has now.

    But Oxfam took a conscious decision to cover this up at the time and failed to inform the appropriate authorities (such as the police).

    More widely there is an apparent lack of any mechanism to inform other charities of the reasons they were dismissed so prevent them working in the sector again.

    And on a more fundamental level, it’s also about the way large charities function (they have become more akin to businesses) and the power relationship between those providing aid and the recipients (including Governments).

    Ps - if anyone thinks this only happens in charities providing foreign aid they are very much mistaken.

    I’ve got first-hand experience of a rape in a UK charity being covered up for “reputational reasons”.
    ChrisD, DJWrongspeed and muscovyduck like this.
  15. ElizabethofYork

    ElizabethofYork Witchsmeller Pursuivant

    This is shocking to me. I've always naively believed that charities of this sort were A Good Thing.
    Sasaferrato likes this.
  16. JimW

    JimW 支那暗杀团

    First came to work in China as volunteer in development but despite many good people also saw enough bad to make me drop out.
    campanula, Rosemary Jest and bendeus like this.
  17. Manter

    Manter Lunch Mob

    On references- legally, you have to be very careful and only give dates and so on- but there are always rumours about sleazes and predators (ask any woman who has had the 'that one makes off colour jokes but is basically ok, avoid that one like the plague) chat in her first day at work...) And if you are making a senior level appointment, you always call round a few contacts- everyone knows everyone and knows who the dodgy ones are.
  18. Manter

    Manter Lunch Mob

    They are. And the vast majority of people working in them are. But there are one or two utter, utter shits- and others who are simply deeply misguided, stupid or averagely venal- and they use their access and 'power' for ill.

    That doesn't mean that aid is necessarily a bad thing, aid workers are necessarily bad people and Rees-Mogg is right.
    bendeus likes this.
  19. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    This is a bizarre post. Like these middle aged male aid workers had no choice after being pestered by these young women / children to pay them for sex.
    ViolentPanda, Wilf and crossthebreeze like this.
  20. Legally you are well within your rights to state on a reference that so and so was sacked/asked to leave cos he was using prostitutes in X,Y or Z whilst on company business. Cos it's fact.
    Almor likes this.
  21. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    yeh cos obvs that's what DJWrongspeed's saying. i can easily see there being spivs like private walker trying it on, and - yes - pimps whoring out boys and girls, men and women. do you really think that there's no actual organization in prostitution?
  22. freethinker

    freethinker Mindful

    The phrase 'don't throw out the baby with the bath water' comes to mind.....
  23. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    er. He said ' In regions affected by catastophe surely there will be people trying anything to make money off rich aid workers.' That is an attempt to move the responsibility away from the aid workers who paid for sex and I don't think its acceptable.
  24. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    for people to have paid for sex there have to be people selling it. and it's imo rather unlikely that they just happened on a load of people who happened to be prostitutes. it's by no means moving responsibility away from the buyers by saying there are sellers too. now, unless you actually have some reasons for your 'i don't think it's acceptable' i'll spend a few minutes working.
    Sasaferrato likes this.
  25. Sasaferrato

    Sasaferrato T'agba ta ti de, a ma yo ogunja.

    Indeed. That is the most disturbing aspect.

    I cannot have faith in an organisation who covers up shit like this. The fact that the dodgy people were working for Oxfam is neither here nor there, it does not reflect badly on Oxfam, who employed these people in good faith, however, Oxfam's behaviour after they knew what these people were up to is completely unacceptable. It stinks that they are more concerned about protecting their income, than protecting women who are being preyed upon by Oxfam employees.

    A post above mentions continuing to support Oxfam, because not to do so will have an impact on people who desperately need help. There are many other charities who work with the same people, support them instead.

    I have long been uneasy with the lavish salaries paid to the people at the top of many charities, justified by 'we need to pay these salaries to attract the right people', this of course was the same argument used to justify the vast salaries paid to the bankers who nearly killed the country.
    baldrick likes this.
  26. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    I do not think it is acceptable that oxfam workers paid for sex. The fact that it was possible for the aid workers to buy sex does not make it acceptable that they did so. What do you think DJWrongspeed was trying to say then with his post about 'context is everything' & people in disaster-struck situations trying anything to make money. Your usual contrarianism in seriously bad taste here take a step back.
    Sasaferrato likes this.
  27. Manter

    Manter Lunch Mob

    2 issues-
    - disciplinary proceedings aren't the same weight at legal proceedings, so you have to be careful what you say. So I can fire you because I have a reasonable suspicion that you stole something- and then find out that you didn't, it was someone else (or it was lost not stolen) but I don't have to take you back. I would though have to be very careful about saying that I fired you for stealing- I could say termination- gross misconduct; because that is true. But specific accusations are dodgier ground.

    - He wasn't. There was some deal about grounds for leaving (I've not seen the deal, obviously, but things like resigning before you are pushed, going off long term sick when disciplinary proceedings start so you are ill-health exit, retiring-out and redundancies as a way to pay a settlement and get rid of someone are all quite common)
    cupid_stunt likes this.
  28. Sasaferrato

    Sasaferrato T'agba ta ti de, a ma yo ogunja.

    Yes, there are buyers and sellers. It is hardly that simple though, is it? There is a big imbalance between the well paid, well fed 'aid worker', and the disaster survivor, who is trying to get enough food to stay alive. This has been a nauseating abuse of position, and Oxfam need to explain why they acted as they did.
    baldrick and Pickman's model like this.
  29. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    yeh. take a step back yourself, stop acting so stupidly, and realise i haven't said what happened was acceptable. indeed, i've said the aid workers did some awful things.
  30. And of course as always it is the cover-up that is causing the issue. If it had been so and so did this and was sacked, that's a non-story, but covering it up to protect the institution's reputation is way out of line.

    However it is not exactly the first time this has happened, the UN, the Vatican, Catholic Church, the CofE, BBC TV & radio, commercial radio, Hollywood, football, swimming, athletics, the scouts , the list just grows and grows.

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