Outlaw King

Discussion in 'books, films, TV, radio & writing' started by weepiper, Nov 10, 2018.

  1. weepiper

    weepiper Jock under the bed

    On Netflix now. Who needs historical accuracy or a good script when you can have sumptuous location Scottish scenery and savage, brutal avenging of English bastardry. 10/10, would watch again.
  2. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    ive only recently discovered Rotten Tomatoes...I love the difference between Audience scores and Critic scores as I find myself far more often agreeing with the Audience score......interesting how big that gap can be,
    For Outlaw King its Critics 56% and Audience 84%
    Sounds good!

    Film critics are a weird untrustworthy bunch
    Lupa likes this.
  3. pogofish

    pogofish Testicle Hairstyle

    And David Mackenzie is a very likeable guy to work with - no airs and graces whatsoever! :)
    geminisnake likes this.
  4. TheHoodedClaw

    TheHoodedClaw acknowledging ur soup leg

    When I'm more awake (sober) I'll link an article about how the premiere of this in Toronto - where a lot of the critics ratings came from - led to the director re-cutting it.
    ska invita likes this.
  5. Poi E

    Poi E Pessimism: a valuable protection against quackery.

    Pleasantly surprised at an understated performance from Chris Pine. He can act!

    Scotland looked stunning, of course, and I thought looking at it that they'd tweaked things to give a shimmering, silvery light. Then I realised that's what the place looks like. Felt homesick for a place that isn't home!
    weepiper likes this.
  6. weepiper

    weepiper Jock under the bed

    My favourite thing about it was: in Braveheart, the Scots were all filthy ragged barbarians, living in muddy hovels, perpetually covered in mud, drunk and fighty. In Outlaw King, they were sometimes like that, and sometimes they were shown wearing nice clothes, speaking French or Latin, having great cathedrals, talking about law, reading, being intelligent, being in touch with people in other European countries. It was much more like what was actually happening in the country in the medieval period.
  7. Reno

    Reno The In Kraut

    Film critics aren’t a bunch, they are indivuals with different tastes, usually informed by having seen a far larger amount of films than regular people. Because I watch a lot of films, my tastes usually align with those of critics. Of course I have critics I like and those I don’t. Audiences tend to be a lot more forgiving when it comes to poor or middling films.

    These days online a lot of hate gets hurled at film critics for being "snobs" when really it’s about demanding a little more from your art or entertainment and being wise cliches. There seems to be this idea that film critics do their job because they hate films, when nothing could be further from the truth. You can only sit through five movies a day if you truly love film. Proper film critics are an independent source from the publicity machine. Their most important function is to draw attention to great smaller films, which don’t have a big budget for publicity, so audiences will find them.

    At its best proper film criticism is an art in itself. Art is not in a vacuum, there should be a dialogue about it and you can agree or disagree. My favourite critic was Pauline Kael of the New Yorker, the most influential film critic of the 60s and 70s. Half of the time I actually disagreed with her, but I still learned from reading the reviews I didn’t agree with. The point of a critic is not to fall in line with your opinion, but in entering into a dialogue. In our social media age, people loathe having their opinion challenged. Everybody who disagrees is the enemy and it’s easy to find an opinion to agree with, no matter how ineptly formulated. There have been a lot of cases recently where genuine film critics get death and rape threats on Twitter, for not loving a particular megabucks superhero or franchise movie.

    Genuine film criticism is a dying art. Lots of publications have fired their critics, because people prefer to read or watch the blogs and YouTube channels of fanboys who often are in the pockets of the studios and who mistake nitpicking to laying out an informed arguement. The death of true cultural criticism is part of our anti-intellectual, tired-of-listening-to-experts age.

    Many of the so called critics on Rottentomatoes are fans who set up their own blog and barely know how to string a sentence together. Metacritic - Movie Reviews, TV Reviews, Game Reviews, and Music Reviews Is a more reliable review aggregator when it comes to actual film critics. Even better, check out what some of the better critics write and try to engage with it. Most reviews are more nuanced that a simple good or bad score.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
  8. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby Share knowledge, don't weaponize it

    Yeah, some of the comments on YT can be well loathsome. It's a bit like film critics are "enemies of the people" when they like or dislike a particular product.

    I tend to respect a few critics - in particular Kermode and your good self - whether I agree with them or not.
  9. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    There's some truth in what you say but conversely critics sit through so much garbage that when anything remotely different comes along they get over excited at how good it is.

    And it's not as if on art films the two scores are always that different. That's an insult to audiences.

    And as to audiences liking middling films, some average films are enjoyable... Looks like Outlaw King falls in that camp. And enjoyable is pretty rare these days for me.

    I first came across this difference with Last Jedi, where the audience is bang on and the critics collectively were totally blind and 40% out on reality.

    Time Out back in the day had good reviews of both film and music in that there were no star ratings and you'd often be hard pressed to assign a score to a review. That kind of writing is great, and missed. Though I get a good picture from the aggregated reviews of rotten tomatoes and their links.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
  10. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby Share knowledge, don't weaponize it

    Was AI a critical success or no? The more I watch it, the more I bond with that film. I seem to recall people were sniffy because it was a peculiar Spielberg/Kubrick hybrid that didn't quite gel. I also quite enjoyed Ghost in the Shell, despite it deviating from the anime original. I mean, I prefer the 2 animes and the follow up seasons (haven't seen the later ones) but as a slice of enjoyment, it was spot on.

    I'm kinda pumped for Outlaw King now :) as long as there's no disembowelments!
  11. Reno

    Reno The In Kraut

    I’m with the critics on Last Jedi. As a Star Wars agnostic, it’s the first Star Wars film which genuinely surprised and delighted me.

    A.I. was a critically divisive film, which has gone through a critical evaluation. I think it’s one of the most misunderstood major movies of the 21st century and one of the last big blockbusters to also be an art house film.

    I don’t think either film is flawless, but both take risks, which in big Hollywood films is rare these days.

    That said, I’m not sure how much point there is doing this divisive blockbuster by divisive blockbuster. Critics opinions of big Hollywood films don’t tend to have much impact on box office, just look at the dire Transfomrers and DC movies. As I said, the main job of a critic is to draw attention to smaller movies, which can’t afford a publicity assault on the public. Most of the films I watch, I find out about by reading reviews and listening to film podcasts by critics I like.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
    krtek a houby likes this.
  12. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby Share knowledge, don't weaponize it

    I got to say, I enjoyed the first Transformers movie for sheer popcorn entertainment. Have not seen other entries in the series. The Last Jedi I loved (as a SW fan, I am biased) and I don't get the hatred for it. I think the recent Hugh Jackman film was another one that defied critics, so I might give that a look at some stage. Post-Nolan, I'm not into the current batch of DC offerings. Apart from Wonder Woman (Pine again) which was relatively fun.
  13. Reno

    Reno The In Kraut

    Wonder Woman was the only acceptable DC movie of the ones I’ve seen, but I thought it was merely ok. Hugh Jackman has a had a lot of films out recently, so I don’t know which one you mean.

    I don’t mind Chris Pine. He is perfectly cast in the new Star Trek movies but he has a shop window dummy handsomeness which I find incredibly bland. I haven’t seen Outlaw King, but there is something so contemporary about him, I have problems imagining him in period roles.
  14. Poi E

    Poi E Pessimism: a valuable protection against quackery.

    No kilts!

    Nice to show how divided the Scots were. Seems somehow familiar.
  15. weepiper

    weepiper Jock under the bed

    I'm afraid I've got some bad news for you.
  16. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby Share knowledge, don't weaponize it

    I liked how his handsomeness was objectified in Wonder Woman - a gentle role reversal of the eye candy cliche.

    The Jackman movie is a musical - The Greatest Showman and cleaned up at the box office, apparently.
  17. Reno

    Reno The In Kraut

    I‘ll check out The Greatest Showman eventually as I quite like musicals, even though it does sound dire. Jackman had his start in musical theatre and he can get those projects off the ground. Movie musicals are rarer these days but they tend to do well, because they attract a mostly older and female audience who are rarely catered to by Hollywood.
    krtek a houby likes this.
  18. DexterTCN

    DexterTCN Official Twitter Liaison Officer

    well...um...er....there's no plural
  19. starfish

    starfish No dialogue. Just plot.

    Might have to give this a watch.
  20. Mrs Miggins

    Mrs Miggins There's been a slight cheese accident

    Florence Pugh is in it. That woman is going to be everywhere before long because she's great.
  21. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam Arm the mentally ill

    Isn’t Robert the Bruce senior played by one of the actors from Braveheart?
  22. Mrs Miggins

    Mrs Miggins There's been a slight cheese accident

    Yes. James Cosmo. He's been in everything though including Game of Thrones, Trainspotting and Babe: Pig in the City :D
    weepiper and MadeInBedlam like this.
  23. Mrs Miggins

    Mrs Miggins There's been a slight cheese accident

    I can't help thinking how cold they must have been if they carried on like they do in this. They're always wading into lakes, getting soaking wet and those clothes would not have been made from quick drying fabrics would they?
    Badgers likes this.
  24. Mrs Miggins

    Mrs Miggins There's been a slight cheese accident

    In fact everyone must have been bloody feeezing all the time. I'm glad I'm not a medieval Scottish peasant.
    marty21, ebonics, Badgers and 2 others like this.
  25. TheHoodedClaw

    TheHoodedClaw acknowledging ur soup leg

  26. JimW

    JimW 支那暗杀团

    Gutted :(
    weepiper and Mrs Miggins like this.
  27. weepiper

    weepiper Jock under the bed

    That's why we were so big on porridge.

    pogofish, Badgers and Mrs Miggins like this.
  28. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    The best film about critics is theatre of blood
    DaveCinzano and Badgers like this.
  29. FiFi

    FiFi Hot cross Bunny

    I doubt it was worse than being a medieval peasant anywhere. That said, I do appreciate my central heating! :thumbs:
    Badgers and Mrs Miggins like this.
  30. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Without music, life would be a mistake.

    Just watched it. It was OK. Too long. The battle scenes were also too long. Too little to keep you that interested in how it would turn out (as a story).

    I’d give it 60%.

    The climax wasn’t a climax: it was a long, confusing wallow in mud. While that might have been realistic, it’s not good story telling. And the exhausted punchup with the soon-to-be Edward II wasn’t realistic nor did it seem like a conclusion. Of course, in the campaign, Loudoun Hill wasn’t the conclusion. But the film chose that as a climax, and it failed to deliver one. It just sort of fizzled out.

    Partly that’s because I lose interest during battle scenes anyway. So they do need to have narrative impact to keep me on board.

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