Our species is 95% stupid

[Johnny Canuck3]

We've tried this 'let's talk about it' approach with racists many, many times in the past and the end result is always the same.
QUOTE]

I understand your frustration with this, but I dont think the 'end result' is what its about. Otherwise we would be agreeing with him that we might as well have a global suicide.

The end result is not why we type all this and the sole purpose of debate is not to convert people.

Also there probably are lots of racist forums on the net. But I dont think there are many where a racist man can fling his ideas into a largely non-racist pool. And survive.
I think by choosing Urban, he was trying to subconciously restore some balance within himself.

Even if he wasnt converted to our way of thinking, we could debate with him, and direct him to all the ways that he was ungrounded. Accepting them or not, he would still be standing in front of his mystery. This is helpful.

But then you dont believe that. Mystery is scary. Bit like an unknown Darkie, speaking an alien language.

Mystery used to be scary for me, and then I thought I had tamed it somehow. This was a temporary solution. I dont think we will ever restore justice, until we give it up.

Really ask yourself why you want to close your ears to this man. And then ask why again. and again. See how the mystery increases each time, and with it your wariness? You could utilise this to understand why he fears Darkies.

I agree with your general point, but this guy was looking an awful lot like a troll. Every time he opened his mouth, something 'controversial' uttered forth.

 

[editor]

I think by choosing Urban, he was trying to subconciously restore some balance within himself.

I don't believe that.

I've seen lots of people like him here over the years and they're often:
(a) pursuing an agenda under the guise of an open debate and/or
(b) being cheered on from the sidelines elsewhere.

Can't be arsed with any more of them now, to be honest because the novelty has long since faded.

 

[fractionMan]

lol @ subconciously trying to restore some balance within himself

 

[i-am-your-idea]

I agree with your general point, but this guy was looking an awful lot like a troll. Every time he opened his mouth, something 'controversial' uttered forth.

Why does it matter if he is a troll or not?

I sometimes take the form of a troll in a debate, to help me understand things. This can be of value if you ever want to explore another viewpoint. The opposing viewpoint can give particularly interesting insight, if you can bear to look at it.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Why does it matter if he is a troll or not?

I sometimes take the form of a troll in a debate, to help me understand things. This can be of value if you ever want to explore another viewpoint. The opposing viewpoint can give particularly interesting insight, if you can bear to look at it.

Playing devil's advocate is different from being a troll.

A troll, as ed points out, is more likely to be someone sitting in a room with his college mates, and they decide: 'hey, let's write "I hate all pakis", and watch the fun!'

 

[FridgeMagnet]

He probably wasn't a troll, he probably believed that.

This is not, however, the "racist encounter experience" board. This has been proposed, considered and rejected many times. We just ban them. That's not going to change.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Forget ed and crispy: I want to mud wrestle with Fridgemagnet!

 

[i-am-your-idea]

He probably wasn't a troll, he probably believed that.

This is not, however, the "racist encounter experience" board. This has been proposed, considered and rejected many times. We just ban them. That's not going to change.

Doesn't stop them coming though, does it. The racism trickles through the net, even when its constantly banned. You can't stop the sea, and your walls are bashed down every time. However it does create the temporary illusion of control. Gotta love that.

 

[editor]

Doesn't stop them coming though, does it. The racism trickles through the net, even when its constantly banned. You can't stop the sea, and your walls are bashed down every time. However it does create the temporary illusion of control. Gotta love that.

Hey, if you like all chat to be drowned out by trolling fuckwits, racists, nutters and spammers, I suggest you head off to some of the more fucked up groups on Usenet or pick any one of the millions of trashed unmoderated forums out there.

 

[i-am-your-idea]

Hey, if you like all chat to be drowned out by trolling fuckwits, racists, nutters and spammers, I suggest you head off to some of the more fucked up groups on Usenet or pick any one of the millions of trashed unmoderated forums out there.

No, I heart urban! Lemmie stay, pls sir.

Just think its good to have the odd racist in the mix. Good for them, good for us. The bad thing is a completely closed world. I'm all for moderation, you do a great job.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Doesn't stop them coming though, does it. The racism trickles through the net, even when its constantly banned. You can't stop the sea, and your walls are bashed down every time. However it does create the temporary illusion of control. Gotta love that.

We have ban buttons. They don't. Fuck 'em.

I'll delete, bin and ban as long as they arrive. Been doing it for a while now. It used to be way worse than it is now.

 

[editor]

Just think its good to have the odd racist in the mix. Good for them, good for us. The bad thing is a completely closed world. I'm all for moderation, you do a great job.

Do you want the odd advertiser, scammer and spammer in the mix here too because keeping them out amounts to us maintaining a "completely closed world" too.

 

[butchersapron]

When does temporary become permanent?

 

[i-am-your-idea]

Do you want the odd advertiser, scammer and spammer in the mix here too because keeping them out amounts to us maintaining a "completely closed world" too.

No, I am for moderation, and editing. I think its beautiful and rare to have an little advert free zone, in a world that is full of adverts.

We seek contrasts to achieve our balance, and that is maybe what he was doing on Urban. Trying to create a personal world, free from the anti Black 'advertisers' he was used to from all around him.

 

[Crispy]

I'm not as battle hardened as ed and fridge, but there's just some things that aren't allowed here - racism is one of them. Sure, this guy could have said what he said for any number of reasons - most of which are deplorable. But by allowing misguided people a platform, we also give the genuinely nasty people one - and that's what would really mess this place up.

He can still read these threads of course. Maybe that'll help in the end *shrug*

 

[i-am-your-idea]

Sure, this guy could have said what he said for any number of reasons - most of which are deplorable. But by allowing misguided people a platform, we also give the genuinely nasty people one - and that's what would really mess this place up.

Do you really feel that one Darky-hater (or darkie) can mess Urban up?

Just one? Are they too hot to handle? Even one diluted to however many appartently non-racist urbanites?

I think you maybe don't see how strong Urban is. It can take a single arrow, definately. Its a big beast. A single arrow is just like a tap on the shoulder, that makes you glance the other way. See what you like, there is nothing worse than no views.

 

[editor]

Do you really feel that one Darky-hater (or darkie) can mess Urban up?

No, they're just too fucking dull and predictable. And they leave a horrible smell about the place.

Maybe you feel the need to have a racist fuckwit hanging about on threads, but I've heard all their fucking rubbish black-hating 'arguments' a million times before and fail to see any benefit in having them repeated here all over again.

 

[editor]

When does temporary become permanent?

Que?

 

[Crispy]

Do you really feel that one Darky-hater (or darkie) can mess Urban up?

Just one? Are they too hot to handle? Even one diluted to however many appartently non-racist urbanites?

I think you maybe don't see how strong Urban is. It can take a single arrow, definately. Its a big beast. A single arrow is just like a tap on the shoulder, that makes you glance the other way. See what you like, there is nothing worse than no views.

Well, some hang around longer than others. And we take plenty of arrows all over the place, tbf. We just react - sometimes too little, sometimes too much. You've got to have management that's imperfect if you want it at all.

 

[butchersapron]

Que?

Doesn't stop them coming though, does it. The racism trickles through the net, even when its constantly banned. You can't stop the sea, and your walls are bashed down every time. However it does create the temporary illusion of control. Gotta love that.

It happen so often that it's as good as permanent.

 

[Crispy]

i getcha

 

[i-am-your-idea]

No, they're just too fucking dull and predictable. And they leave a horrible smell about the place.

Maybe you feel the need to have a racist fuckwit hanging about on threads, but I've heard all their fucking rubbish black-hating 'arguments' a million times before and fail to see any benefit in having them repeated here all over again.

What is it in them that you fail to see any benefit in?

Can that not also be applied to you not allowing ONE of them on urban?

Its your world, sir, and I love it. You have the right to make the rules. I'm just being philosophical, no 'arm meant.

 

[editor]

What is it in them that you fail to see any benefit in?

Please explain the 'benefits; to me, because I can't see any. It's not like he was saying anything new or original.

Can that not also be applied to you not allowing ONE of them on urban?

Right. So for how long would you like your token racist numbnut to be kept onboard and free to spout his vile racist ideologies? A month? A year? In perpetuity?

And don't you think he might just encourage one or two of his pals to join in the fun if the argument got a little to hot for him to handle?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

What is it in them that you fail to see any benefit in?

Can that not also be applied to you not allowing ONE of them on urban?

We have enough dubious cunts who don't quite manage to tip the scales as it is, to be honest, and they add nothing except bandwidth charges.

 

[i-am-your-idea]

racists are the new kittens. but we are not amused.

 

[i-am-your-idea]

Please explain the 'benefits; to me, because I can't see any. It's not like he was saying anything new or original.Right. So for how long would you like your token racist numbnut to be kept onboard and free to spout his vile racist ideologies? A month? A year? In perpetuity?

And don't you think he might just encourage one or two of his pals to join in the fun if the argument got a little to hot for him to handle?

Are beneifts only to be found in novelty? We wouldnt bother with philosophy here if that was the case. Philosophy is just the same old questions, and debates. I'm not bored yet.

Like I say, its up to you to judge how far out of your own comfort zone you wish to tread. I find it interesting to venture out of mine a little.

For instance I dont want to be disliked so much that too many people shut their ears to me, but I do think a bit like Max, so I'm aiming for a balance.

Do you hear me? Or do I need a new name yet?

 

[muckypup]

I'm pleased he was banned. If he really did want to engage in civil discussion then using such derogatory terms was not the way to do it.

 

[butchersapron]

Like I say, its up to you to judge how far out of your own comfort zone you wish to tread. I find it interesting to venture out of mine a little.

How far do you want to go?

 

[editor]

Like I say, its up to you to judge how far out of your own comfort zone you wish to tread. I find it interesting to venture out of mine a little.

For fuck's sake. I used to run, write and sell an anti racist comic on my own on the terraces and outside football grounds, so I think I know just a little about putting myself a little out of my comfort zone. And that's in the real world where a smack in the face tends to hurt a little more than a damning, emoticon-laden post.

But you haven't answered my question. How long do you propose that this racist twat should have been given carte blanche to espouse his racist ideologies about the "violent, uneducated, ignorant" cultures of black people? A month? A year? For ever?

 

[i-am-your-idea]

I don't want to upset anyone here. Maybe this debate about freedom, is too far from your current comfort zone. If so I understand. We have to take things slow, and preferably with tea breaks

It sounds that you tried to promote freedom, in too forceful a way, and the result was painful. Thats a really tough experience. But maybe your magazine would have been more effective in a only slightly less racist environment. Or maybe a slightly less anti-racist magazine would have been better recieved at the football match.

People dont like treading TOO far out of their comfort zones, the result can be very painful- as you have experienced.

But a little way out, and you can get somewhere far.

Tea, anyone?