butchersapron
Bring back hanging
If there's any confusion it's because you attempted to argue that the m/c dominance of the left is actually an acceptance of maxist class analysis.
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If there's any confusion it's because you attempted to argue that the m/c dominance of the left is actually an acceptance of maxist class analysis.
Spion
I hear ya
Of course there are, love. But class is the most influential, IMO, and most significant in termsof effecting social change
cockneyrebel
New Member
What started a thread saying that? What's the difference between that and changing the word working class for black people?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
As a member of the left you would.
Spion
I hear ya
Lord knows where you get such shite from
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
cockneyrebel
New Member
What so you think every organisation on the left, whether it's the SP, SWP, IWCA etc has a middle class membership and leadership? And you think that this also applies to the left internationally?
Spion
I hear ya
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
And try hard to concentrate here spion because it's important as to why the left is in the state it is, see how these other things play out in real life, becuse they're not just added extras, they have real effects, and one of them is the m/c dominance of left groups via the things i mentioned above - cultural capital, education, networking skills and contacts, time, money etc. And if these things come to dominate the leadership and memberhip of left groups (and they do) then w/c people won't and do not join them in significant numbers. There;'s no wat around that, you can't hide behind imoposing a common interst via marx. It;'s irrelevant.
Taxamo Welf
kebagels pls
that's what he just said
Spion
I hear ya
Thank god for your revelations, butchers. You truly guide us all
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I claimed there is ongoing m/c dominance of the left, you asked me where i'd experienced it, i told you. You said that you'd welcome more people adopting a marxist analysis of class - i. e people concentrating (almost exclusively it seems) on defintion of class that only allows for relationship of means of production, i.e that what i had experienced is just that. Simple really.
Taxamo Welf
kebagels pls
our next category is politics. First question:
class - essentially a cultural identity or an economic relationship?
bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Butchersapron, bristol poly! Your answer for 10 points:
class - essentially a cultural identity or an economic relationship?
bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Butchersapron, bristol poly! Your answer for 10 points:
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Well, you claim never to have seen m/c dominance of leadership of the left depsite being involved for decades. What is anyone with their eyes open to make of such a statement?
Taxamo Welf
kebagels pls
That's all true actually.
But has spion really argued against that..? Or was it more of a throwaway comment...?
cockneyrebel
New Member
Can't speak for spion but as said are you saying every group is like this? And what about internationally? It might be the case for a few tiny groups in the UK but to make a sweeping statement about "the left" is totally over the top.
The left in the UK is too dominated by academics and students.
Spion
I hear ya
The 'it seems' is the admission you don't actually know what I think. You see me arguing for marxist fundamentals in the analysis of class and assume I don't believe there are other subordinate means of exercising power. Best to ask before assuming such rubbish really isn't it?
cockneyrebel
New Member
That won't stop some people going off on a rant in response.......
Mk12 said he wants to start up a counselling forum on here.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It's essentially both you monkey. Establishing a real original prior essence doesn't mean anything. It's a game whereby you can invite ever more people with opposing interests (but who have the same long term interests) onboard and play happy families meanwhile ignoring the first step of actually meaning something to the 'real' w/c, the ones who can put us all in a postion so those differing interests don't matter, and the mdoel can become reality.
. The 2 class model is the death star of the approach.
Spion
I hear ya
Where did I claim that? Move away from the computer. Get some rest. You're fucking up left, right and centre on this thread
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Then please, integrate your vulgar marxist understanding with your analysis of other power relations - actually make the 2nd lot mean something other than just something that you say rote.
And do you still insist that you've never seen m/c dominance of the leadership of the left in your 2 decades involvment. That's the proof of the pudding.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
more of a recycled comment
cockneyrebel
New Member
What's wrong with the left. Academics and students.
Whats wrong with the left is that it sometimes seems its only academics and students.
cockneyrebel
New Member
And do you still insist that this is the case for the entire left?
cockneyrebel
New Member
Well parts of the left, who come out with stuff like:
Which to most people indeed means nothing at all.
Next on the agenda. Praxis and post modernism in module 5.3.
rogue_lettuce
Well-Known Member
I can't be bothered with this thread on the basis that what I've said has been completely and wilfully misinterpreted by some posters - eg ignoring the word "ALL" in the sentence "the middle class are not all propping them up", etc.
it would have been better then if you had said a minority of the middle class are not propping them up . That may have led to a 'what is a middleclass job disscussion' and highly excited libarians
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