I've never read BNW, but I always thought it was anti eugenics, and depicting a eugenics-based society as evil and oppressive...
Orwell vs Huxley
- Thread starter Orang Utan
- Start date
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
They are both shit.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
not really. The society depicted was a working one. It did paint up some sinister aspects of that, but other than the protagonist, and the 'savage' nobody was complaining. The oppressed were bred to stupid to ever realise the oppression. I read it as very sinister and dystopian, but on re-reads I do have to wonder wether he meant to convey a dystopia.
Orang Utan
Maybe I like the misery
poll
done
Orang Utan
Maybe I like the misery
maybe he doesn't, cos even though he's a great writer, he is still seen as a genre writer and therefore is not taken as seriously as well established writers trying their hand at speculative fiction
Interesting. Cheers. I ought to read it just because...
Oh. But he was conveying a similar sort of dystopia wasn't he?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Obnoxiousness
>-->))).>
I just voted for Orwell simply because I enjoyed 1984.
I also enjoyed listening to "Diamond Dogs" (1974), which was David Bowie's first album after dumping the Spiders From Mars and as a result, he played most of the instruments on it, with the exception of the session musicians on drums, bass and piano.
He then took it on an American tour and recorded the "David Live" album that starts with 1984. Possibly his strongest ever live vocal performances on that tour.......... but I digress!
I also enjoyed listening to "Diamond Dogs" (1974), which was David Bowie's first album after dumping the Spiders From Mars and as a result, he played most of the instruments on it, with the exception of the session musicians on drums, bass and piano.
He then took it on an American tour and recorded the "David Live" album that starts with 1984. Possibly his strongest ever live vocal performances on that tour.......... but I digress!
Very true. It's the same as why masterpieces like The Dark Knight don't even get shortlisted for Best film at the Oscars. Why? Because they're comic book films
Although they did relent with Return of the King at least.
Orang Utan
Maybe I like the misery
are you talking about fahrenheit 451 in particular or just his writing in general? i've read a lot of short stories, but not the novel.
Sorry yeah Fahrenheit 451, the only thing I've read by him...
Jorum
Well-Known Member
Orwell, if no other reason than his understanding of the importance of language as a political tool, and how the diminishment of language and words is used to influence opinions.
His essays on the language of politics are still shockingly relevant today (even more so than when written).
His essays on the language of politics are still shockingly relevant today (even more so than when written).
Authors: Orwell.
1984 vs Brave New World: 1984.
I do however love them both (the books, I'm not much of a fan of Huxley) because they are great examples of dystopian fiction, alongside Swastika Night, We, Fahrenheit 451, and The Trial.
1984 vs Brave New World: 1984.
I do however love them both (the books, I'm not much of a fan of Huxley) because they are great examples of dystopian fiction, alongside Swastika Night, We, Fahrenheit 451, and The Trial.
Agreed. I enjoyed Orwell's destruction of words and language more than I did Huxley's drugs and technology.
revol68
what, fucking what?
How the fuck anyone can compare that cunt Huxley to Orwell is beyond me! It also pisses me off that Orwell is always seen mostly in the light of 1984 and to a lesser extent Animal Farm, overlooking his other works in which his politics are more explicit and are pretty far away from the nice safe liberal "anti totalitarianism" that Animal Farm and 1984 are read as.
SpookyFrank
Don't swallow the cap
Very true. It's the same as why masterpieces like The Dark Knight don't even get shortlisted for Best film at the Oscars. Why? Because they're comic book films
Return of the King was unmitigated gash, you do know that right? A soulless husk of a thing even by the mediocre standards of the other two films.
And LOTR wasn't a fucking comic book
What's worse is everyone on crap like the BBC's 'Have Your Say' ending each post with "Orwell was right", "1984, here we are" and "Big Brother is watching you"
Jorum
Well-Known Member
What's worse it probably less than 10% of those have actually read 1984.
Return of the King was unmitigated gash, you do know that right? A soulless husk of a thing even by the mediocre standards of the other two films.
And LOTR wasn't a fucking comic book
I meant Comic book/scifi/fantasy - these sorts of films almost never win best film oscar, ROTK was the first time one had. And it wasn't gash, except possibly the last 10 minutes.
revol68
what, fucking what?
I got chucked out of my 5th form class for pulling the teacher up on the fact that Orwell was a revolutionary socialist who wasn't arguing all revolutions lead to dictatorship, apparently responding to "Well I've been teaching this text for 6 years" with "Well you've been teaching nonsense then" was very disrespectful.
Obnoxiousness
>-->))).>
I got chucked out of my 5th form class for pulling the teacher up on the fact that Orwell was a revolutionary socialist who wasn't arguing all revolutions lead to dictatorship, apparently responding to "Well I've been teaching this text for 6 years" with "Well you've been teaching nonsense then" was very disrespectful.
You are obviously more intelligent than I was at that age... I was thrown out for calling the teacher a cunt. They had me back the next day though.
cliche guevara
Well-Known Member
Without reading the thread at all, Orwell was a much better story teller. Brave New World is a fantastic vision, but not a great story imo.
revol68
what, fucking what?
You are obviously more intelligent than I was at that age... I was thrown out for calling the teacher a cunt. They had me back the next day though.
I was obnoxious but also smart enough to be polite whilst doing so, in this case however I wasn't just trying to wind the teacher up, I was genuinely pissed off that he was talking so much shite and the fact some of the twats in front of me where rolling their eyes as if "revol's talking shite".
mitochondria
full-on emptiness
I think as visionaries they are equal, focused on different aspects of society/power but both quite accurate. Orwell is a better writer and less of a cunt, but I already lived through his vision and Huxley's is being realised just about now.
When mixed these ideas start to taste quite like reality. Especially with a dash of Burgess.
When mixed these ideas start to taste quite like reality. Especially with a dash of Burgess.
Obnoxiousness
>-->))).>
I was pissed off too. But I cannot remember why.
Obnoxiousness
>-->))).>
Maybe I, like you, was annoyed at the ramblings of someone who had interpreted something in the wrong way.
I think a lot of writers just write, and discover later that people have drawn conclusions that were not originally intended, but adopt them because the act of writing has brought them forward.
In other words, the reader and the writer have both gained something from the book. But since it's fiction, then perhaps it is open to be interpreted, like art is?
At the end of the day... the writers job is to make you think about the subject matter. And there is no concrete right or wrong interpretation.
Literature is thought provoking, and if I had written something and two people came to me and told me what they thought I meant, and were both poles apart, I wouldn't burst their bubble, because it's art, right?
And art that is political...... well, all things political are far from being simply black & white, are they?
I think a lot of writers just write, and discover later that people have drawn conclusions that were not originally intended, but adopt them because the act of writing has brought them forward.
In other words, the reader and the writer have both gained something from the book. But since it's fiction, then perhaps it is open to be interpreted, like art is?
At the end of the day... the writers job is to make you think about the subject matter. And there is no concrete right or wrong interpretation.
Literature is thought provoking, and if I had written something and two people came to me and told me what they thought I meant, and were both poles apart, I wouldn't burst their bubble, because it's art, right?
And art that is political...... well, all things political are far from being simply black & white, are they?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
Yes. It's an unsettling book.
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