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Optimum Population Trust

elbows said:
Yes and how much of that 9-10 billion figure is due to long life expectanc[
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Not very much (not actually looking it up, just envaguening my recollection that the answer is "fuck-all").

The overwhelmingly important number is the number of girls <14 who are alive now and are going to have kids.
 
It's got to be within scientists' grasp to create a harmless treatment to add to the food/water supply that makes people less fertile. As a side effect I think people would become much more humane if they couldn't use raising kids as an excuse for their flaky behaviour.
 
It's got to be within scientists' grasp to create a harmless treatment to add to the food/water supply that makes people less fertile. As a side effect I think people would become much more humane if they couldn't use raising kids as an excuse for their flaky behaviour.
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I really hope you are kidding. That sounds fucking awful.
 
Not as awful as the accelerating process of ecological devastation IMO.
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And what would stop people filtering the water? Secondly I doubt it would work, people would kick off over that.

Any kind of method of reducing the worlds population that involves things like that is doomed to fail imo.

Oh.. and is a fucking awful concept!

I presume you will be first in line though?
 
He's not, check his record. Actually he's chnaged his name as he was ashamed of his opinions. A search for eugenics, malthus or sterilisation or something should flush him out.
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Nice, eugenics rears its ugly head again. I hope this sort of nutty attitude isn't common in the green movement.
 
butchersapron said:
He's not, check his record. Actually he's chnaged his name as he was ashamed of his opinions. A search for eugenics, malthus or sterilisation or something should flush him out.
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Fuck off twerp. I'm not ashamed of my opinions in the slightest, hence why I'm restating them. I have never advocated eugenics either, but don't let the facts get in the way of a good bit of mudslinging, eh?

TomPaine said:
I presume you will be first in line though?
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Yeah, I would be.
 
Firstly I envision it not to be like sterilisation - just making conception harder. Either way, I take eugenics to mean making scientifically unsupported value judgements about which genes are 'useful' and should be perpetuated, and which ones are not. I'm not advocating anything like that.
 
Wolveryeti said:
It's got to be within scientists' grasp to create a harmless treatment to add to the food/water supply that makes people less fertile. As a side effect I think people would become much more humane if they couldn't use raising kids as an excuse for their flaky behaviour.
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are you truly insane

on a practical level aside, regardless of anything else, that is without doubt the most nut job, balls achingly random, fruitopped, fucking insane idea anyone ever uttered on the internet
 
Wolveryeti said:
Firstly I envision it not to be like sterilisation - just making conception harder. Either way, I take eugenics to mean making scientifically unsupported value judgements about which genes are 'useful' and should be perpetuated, and which ones are not. I'm not advocating anything like that.
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Envision it any way you like Dr Mengele.
 
smokedout said:
are you truly insane

on a practical level aside, regardless of anything else, that is without doubt the most nut job, balls achingly random, fruitopped, fucking insane idea anyone ever uttered on the internet
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Why? Population control is widely used to manage natural ecosystems in national parks etc. Does this make steam come out of your ears too?

Obviously I'm not suggesting shooting people to keep the numbers down, but what's so special about humans that exempts us from applying the same principle?
 
Wolveryeti said:
Why? Population control is widely used to manage natural ecosystems in national parks etc. Does this make steam come out of your ears too?

Obviously I'm not suggesting shooting people to keep the numbers down, but what's so special about humans that exempts us from applying the same principle?
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firstly, it probably is out of the realms of science to produce a drug that would have no side effects on anyone other then make it slightly harder to conceive if taken everyday for life by everyone in the world including babies and the elderly

secondly, in most of the places where population in greatest then lack of access to food and water supplies is problem enough, and where they do exist they are usually self managed, so are you just going to rock up and say hey, do you mind if we slip this sterilisation potion in yer well

third, people might just have something to say about this, unless you envision a conspiracy of silence involving every gorvernment, water company, food manufacturer and drug company in the world

mad, batshit insane, go away fool
 
DotCommunist said:
Improving stability and living conditions leads to a downturn in birthrates. The stats bear this out.
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This would be my preferred solution too. But I don't think it is achievable before things go start going really downhill. In fact the more things go downhill ecologically the less likely it is.

smokedout said:
firstly, it probably is out of the realms of science to produce a drug...
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You're right - an engineered bacterium or virus would probably be easier.

smokedout said:
third, people might just have something to say about this, unless you envision a conspiracy of silence involving every gorvernment, water company, food manufacturer and drug company in the world
mad, batshit insane, go away fool
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I don't imagine it would be a popular choice either. But I think it's a necessary one.
 
Wolveryeti said:
This would be my preferred solution too. But I don't think it is achievable before things go start going really downhill. In fact the more things go downhill ecologically the less likely it is.
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That still doesn't endorse the idea of enforced birth control. That sort of action (ethics aside) is unworkable, the chaos and hatred it would cause would simply add another factor to an already complex situation of birth/death rates as experienced by those most economically disadvantaged.

This isn't economics, you can't just use state intervention to regulate birth and death rates.
 
DotCommunist said:
That still doesn't endorse the idea of enforced birth control. That sort of action (ethics aside) is unworkable, the chaos and hatred it would cause would simply add another factor to an already complex situation of birth/death rates as experienced by those most economically disadvantaged.

This isn't economics, you can't just use state intervention to regulate birth and death rates.
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I respectfully disagree. I think it would lead to a golden age of increased cooperation and community-spiritedness.
 
There won't be human-conceived controls on population. It will happen as a result of forces beyond our control. If the monsoons of South Asia fail, as many climate scientists fear they will, there will be mass starvation, a famine that could dwarf those of Ukraine or North Korea in the last century.
 
tim said:
To provide people with a decent quality of life, something that most people still don't have and which the approach advocated by some here would prevent them from having.

Whatever you may be arguing there are clearly posts here with a different overtly reactionary agenda, look back and read them if you don't believe me, pushing an overtly neo-Malthusian line, backed up by the old disaster is innevitable; there are too many people; what about the other species nonesense.
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Q1)so only growth can provide people with what we need?

q2) can everyone have the lifestyle of the US m/c?

3) why is it nonsense to talk of other species?
 
I think it would lead to a golden age of increased cooperation and community-spiritedness.
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Nice, dropping medication in the water supply designed to stop conception. Now talk of it leading to a golden age. What next a youth league?
 
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