OPEN LETTER TO DISSENT - from an Anarchist Federation member

[Herbert Read]

i didnt think andy anderson was that well revered within the af, herbert? have times changed?

canals as a dumping ground are well reverred up my end

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Canals are water, not ground. Except on Mars.

 

[Herbert Read]

Canals are water, not ground. Except on Mars.

only if they are full of water, plus no body except tools like you would say its a right dumping water over there in the canal.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

That's kind of what canals are like, Herb. Full of water. Like rivers in that respect.

 

[Herbert Read]

That's kind of what canals are like, Herb. Full of water. Like rivers in that respect.

No there is disused canals that are empty and full of junk. I cant believe im arguing about this

I know why becuase i fucking love it

 

[rednblack]

Canals are water, not ground. Except on Mars.

there are no canals on mars, shit no wonder you're so resentful towards oxford

 

[free spirit]

RE. Anarchist Federation proposal.

dan - it's a shame that this didn't get posted a week ago as there was a national dissent gathering this weekend which I'm sure anarchist federation people would have been welcome to attend.

Unfortunately I couldn't make this meeting, and haven't actaully made it to any dissent gathering post g8 as the g8 effort completely wiped me out mentally, phisically and financially as I'm sure was the case for many of the people most heavily involved to various extents. I'm therefore not sure what the future holds for dissent as i've not been involved in the discussions.

In terms of AF joining dissent / working with dissent on a collaborative basis - essentially the dissent policy is as follows.

Dissent! is open to anybody willing to work within the Hallmarks of Peoples' Global Action (PGA). These hallmarks being...

1. A very clear rejection of capitalism, imperialism and feudalism; all trade agreements, institutions and governments that promote destructive globalisation.

2. We reject all forms and systems of domination and discrimination including, but not limited to, patriarchy, racism and religious fundamentalism of all creeds. We embrace the full dignity of all human beings.

3. A confrontational attitude, since we do not think that lobbying can have a major impact in such biased and undemocratic organisations, in which transnational capital is the only real policy-maker.

4. A call to direct action and civil disobedience, support for social movements' struggles, advocating forms of resistance which maximise respect for life and oppressed peoples' rights, as well as the construction of local alternatives to global capitalism

5. An organisational philosophy based on decentralisation and autonomy.

If AF works within these hallmarks as i suspect it does pretty much, then I can see no reason why there should be a problem with a link up, though I've no idea how AF would envisage this working in practice, and there'd probably need to be a fair amount of discussion to avoid any concerns about AF taking over dissent etc etc. as dissent is a relatively new and loose network of groups and individuals who essentially came together initially to facilitate protests at the G8, as well as trying to lay the foundations for a longer term network.

These are just some initial personal thoughts, and i'd in no way claim to be able to speak on behalf of the network, particularly given what i stated at the start about not having been at the recent gatherings.

 

[In Bloom]

RE. Anarchist Federation proposal.

dan - it's a shame that this didn't get posted a week ago as there was a national dissent gathering this weekend which I'm sure anarchist federation people would have been welcome to attend.

Unfortunately I couldn't make this meeting, and haven't actaully made it to any dissent gathering post g8 as the g8 effort completely wiped me out mentally, phisically and financially as I'm sure was the case for many of the people most heavily involved to various extents. I'm therefore not sure what the future holds for dissent as i've not been involved in the discussions.

In terms of AF joining dissent / working with dissent on a collaborative basis - essentially the dissent policy is as follows.



If AF works within these hallmarks as i suspect it does pretty much, then I can see no reason why there should be a problem with a link up, though I've no idea how AF would envisage this working in practice, and there'd probably need to be a fair amount of discussion to avoid any concerns about AF taking over dissent etc etc. as dissent is a relatively new and loose network of groups and individuals who essentially came together initially to facilitate protests at the G8, as well as trying to lay the foundations for a longer term network.

These are just some initial personal thoughts, and i'd in no way claim to be able to speak on behalf of the network, particularly given what i stated at the start about not having been at the recent gatherings.

IIRC, AF members have attended dissent gatherings and put forward proposals at them.

 

[free spirit]

ah - yes i just read through the mimutes from the wales gathering and noticed that...

 

[catch]

Only when I see things I don't understand.
All this Dissent, SWP and Reclaim The Streets stuff, nobody around where I live understands any of it. And yet this is a working class area.

RTS is defunct as far as I know, although they did have some positive involvement in the liverpool dockers strike.

I don't understand the point of Dissent and the SWP, apart from to draw people interested in politics away from any potentially useful political activity they might do otherwise. They're both irrelevant to the vast majority of people and are likely to remain so.

 

[blamblam]

The Streets stuff, nobody around where I live understands any of it. And yet this is a working class area.

I mean it's pretty simple really. Safe to assume any weird bits that aren't immediately clear (i.e. about birds) are most likely drugs references.

 

[Dan Jakopovich]

RE. Anarchist Federation proposal.

dan - it's a shame that this didn't get posted a week ago as there was a national dissent gathering this weekend which I'm sure anarchist federation people would have been welcome to attend.

I only recently saw the draft agenda and alessio's comments.
Thanks for your positive remarks. Unfortunately some people were somewhat offended by the letter although I had good intentions - that the two general currents start sharing their fate more directly, for the sake of both and better prospects for our common goal - an egalitarian and autonomous society.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Only when I see things I don't understand.
All this Dissent, SWP and Reclaim The Streets stuff, nobody around where I live understands any of it. And yet this is a working class area.

Anarchism has a real problem in getting the message out to the people who should matter. I dont know the reasons for this as Im not involved in 'the scene' but given most working class peoples ambivolence/disillusionment with the current governmental system it appears a chance lost.

 

[rednblack]

I mean it's pretty simple really. Safe to assume any weird bits that aren't immediately clear (i.e. about birds) are most likely drugs references.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

Anarchism has a real problem in getting the message out to the people who should matter. I dont know the reasons for this as Im not involved in 'the scene' but given most working class peoples ambivolence/disillusionment with the current governmental system it appears a chance lost.

its a chance not yet really taken in a big way...

 

[Barking_Mad]

its a chance not yet really taken in a big way...

I agree. I don't want to critisise too much as there's people doing far more than me, but the anarchism 'scene' to me is something that you find rather than it finding you. Now that's fine for people who are actively interested in 'politics' and who might find their way into anarchism, bit like I did - but there's so many disallusioned people out there whose view of anarchism is little more than outright chaos. Bit of a waste in my view. If anarchism is going to become something more than a niche political idea then id have thought anarchists have to start doing more to spread the word. I realise that's easier said than done, but it needs a good shove in my view........

 

[Taxamo Welf]

i support the idea of to save up enough money (which the wombles have shown we can raise) to send a single sheet on what anarchism is and what it wants and why YOU, yes YOU mrse biggins of 46 Dunstall road lower brackbury, want it too. To Every Single Home In Britain. Can you imagine the attention such a gesture would get? Everyone would read it cos the media would make such a fuss.

It should be done at least once.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

but what would it say of course....

cue more infighting.

 

[butchersapron]

i support the idea of to save up enough money (which the wombles have shown we can raise) to send a single sheet on what anarchism is and what it wants and why YOU, yes YOU mrse biggins of 46 Dunstall road lower brackbury, want it too. To Every Single Home In Britain. Can you imagine the attention such a gesture would get? Everyone would read it cos the media would make such a fuss.

It should be done at least once.

None.

And what do you expect such a grand gesture to achieve? You have things upside down and back to front - you don't 'import' ideas into people, they come from their own life from their own relations, from their own experience - not from a leaflet by the enlightened and ideally they'd influence those 'in advance' (sic) of them to such an extent they'd drop such a silly suggestion.

 

[Top Dog]

None.

And what do you expect such a grand gesture to achieve? You have things upside down and back to front - you don't 'import' ideas into people, they come from their own life from their own relations, from their own experience - not from a leaflet by the enlightened and ideally they'd influence those 'in advance' (sic) of them to such an extent they'd drop such a silly suggestion.

indeed.

I heard a similar hare brained suggestion a few years ago... actually it went further than a suggestion... it almost became a fundraising project, for a small pamphlet on 'What is anarchism?' with a print run of many millions to be distibuted. what a waste of money, paper and time

 

[Taxamo Welf]

yes i saw that coming. I think it would complement what other community work you were doing as well. Not in advance of, but at the same time as...

Guestimate the percentage of people who are anarchists and whose beliefs came entirely from their every day life without any reading or prompting whatsoever please.

Also could you tell me what the AF is doing right now today and tommorrow in workplaces and communities.

This is not a challenge, i am trying to make my mind up about something

 

[Top Dog]

yes i saw that coming. I think it would complement what other community work you were doing as well. Not in advance of, but at the same time as...

Guestimate the percentage of people who are anarchists and whose beliefs came entirely from their every day life without any reading or prompting whatsoever please.

Also could you tell me what the AF is doing right now today and tommorrow in workplaces and communities.

This is not a challenge, i am trying to make my mind up about something

so the reason that the working class havent revolted against capital is because they dont yet understand anarchism?!!! ffs... think about what youre saying for a minute

 

[Herbert Read]

so the reason that the working class havent revolted against capital is because they dont yet understand anarchism?!!! ffs... think about what youre saying for a minute

if only they could undersatnd

 

[Herbert Read]

This is not a challenge, i am trying to make my mind up about something

It does whatever the individaual members do, myself im involved with social centres, squatting and trade union struggle.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

so the reason that the working class havent revolted against capital is because they dont yet understand anarchism?!!! ffs... think about what youre saying for a minute

no they have revolted and resisted in many many ways since the creation of the class, i am well aware of this; the question, is why there revolts have not often been anarchic, or being to achieve anarchy. I am actually thinking about what i'm saying.

e.g. Poll tax revolt; primarily against taxes, but federalised resistance, a brilliant example of how w/c organising can take on and win against the govt. But did those who participated do so out of a desire for anarchy? Maybe! Was that explicit? No.

Why are people tearing into me for suggesting a propaganda drive. You expect to spread resistance by osmosis? By telepathy? Yes people want to defend their communities and defend their rights and they want a freer world, but do the majority of people agree that in fact the entire system is stacked to do the opposite, to defend the rights of the few? Many say that kind of thing, but few act on it. Few genuinely believe the ONLY option is rebellion. Rebellions happen from time to time, isn't the idea to be the current trying to run through in between, to link and build the reasons WHY we rebel why we HAVE to? yes i know that sounds trotskyite/leninist, but thats the truth. We involve ourseles in struggle, but we also understand its always part of a bigger picture - THE struggle.

You seem ready to pigeon hole me in a certain stereotypes of a condescending wanker; is it because I is middle class?

 

[Taxamo Welf]

It does whatever the individaual members do, myself im involved with social centres, squatting and trade union struggle.

why would you need a national federation to do what individauals want to do?
friendly q

 

[Top Dog]

You seem ready to pigeon hole me in a certain stereotypes of a condescending wanker;

what have i said that suggests this?

no they have revolted and resisted in many many ways since the creation of the class, i am well aware of this; the question, is why there revolts have not often been anarchic, or being to achieve anarchy. I am actually thinking about what i'm saying....

well then... you conceive of the conditions for revolution as it being necessary first for everyone (or a significant enough majority) of people to subscribe to 'anarchism' or another ideology. Correct?

 

[Herbert Read]

why would you need a national federation to do what individauals want to do?
friendly q

to co ordinate and discuss

 

[Taxamo Welf]

well then... you conceive of the conditions for revolution as it being necessary first for everyone (or a significant enough majority) of people to subscribe to 'anarchism' or another ideology. Correct?

No - the conditions for revolts (not neccessarily revolutions) are primarily economic, and a little bit social. If you want it to go further, it would help that people were aware of your arguments. I don't believe that if 56% of the population had read Marx/Kropotkin/an issue of Class War (delete as applicable to personal taste) then we would have a revolt.

But it would help!

what have i said that suggests this?

nothing really, it was more herbs commnet 'if only they would understand'. I appreciate you aren't be off

 

[Taxamo Welf]

to co ordinate and discuss

Discuss i understand, and i see a very high level of discussion in organise.
But 'co ordinate', coordinate what? Your individual actions?

Still friendly mind